Modern bike reliability

[Supermofo]

Is reliability going backwards on modern bikes?

I get MCN from my Dad who hands me a wodge every time we catch up so I tend to read a fair few issues back to back. And over the last couple of years I'm struck by just how many issues they have with brand new test bikes.

KTM seem the worst with loads of problems, Ducati not far behind but now it's even Japanese bikes. The last issue from early Aug has Neevsy saying that the £26k Kawasaki H2SX has an adaptive cruise control which has a mind of its own, a Sat Nav that keeps dropping connection at the worst of times, dash freezing, a non start due to something with the dash, the fuel gauge randomly showing empty and the quick shifter sometimes doesn't.

The very next page was about Ducati taking back their £15k Desert X for various electrical issues including, dash problems, an odo which reset itself to nothing but a line of dashes and both the ABS and the TC being disabled. As it's MCN they've taken the bike back and given him a new one, I suspect not something most people would get.

This is on top of seeing GS owners limping to dealers on youtube due to various leccy or leccy related suspension issues. KTM dash problems and oil/water leaks. Aprilia with engines popping and so forth.

A lot of these issues seem to be down to the electrical gadgets and it's proper shit this is happening to brand new bikes, what happens when the bike is 5 years old!

[Mr. Dazzle]

It does kinda feel they're trying to shoe horn loads of electronics in and leap forwards. It took the car industry a couple of decades to get all that stuff in and kinda working, a lot of debugging would have happened in the meantime. Of course a lot of the learning will read across though. Electronics in general though take alot of expense and a lot of expertise you wouldn't typically have in a bike OEM - most of our software types (and I work for an OEM don't forget) don't even like cars

Irony is, much of it is probably unnecessary But then nearly everything about a 'big' bike is unnecessary, soooo.....

[wull]

Like my gran used to say, “automatic aw tae fuck”………more electrical wizardry means more potential shite to go wrong.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Like my gran used to say, “automatic aw tae fuck”………more electrical wizardry means more potential shite to go wrong.

Didn't you buy a fancy two way potentiometer so that you could improve the automatic damping adjustment on your completely unnecessary superbike?

[Dodgy69]

I think in future I'd steer clear of brand new latest gen bikes and buy summot where reliability has been proven, for a year or two at least.

Trouble is, emission rules make manufacturers redesign proven engines and yes, far too many lecky gadgets go wrong outside warranty.

[Yorick]

Most stuff you mentioned are electronics. The mechanicals seem OK. All my bikes have been perfect, apart from a few silly electrical issues,

[wull]

Like my gran used to say, “automatic aw tae fuck”………more electrical wizardry means more potential shite to go wrong.

Didn't you buy a fancy two way potentiometer so that you could improve the automatic damping adjustment on your completely unnecessary superbike?

Absolutely necessary, if I didn’t have that extra adjustability on the front end I’d have had to back off ever so slightly that early morning whilst commuting to work. Plus it’s electronically adjustable but fixed like conventional damping when in ride mode pro.

[KungFooBob]

I've found that the less you ride them, the more reliable they get.

[DefTrap]

MCN is still going?

[JackyJoll]

MCN is still going?

And why?

[Demannu]

I think you're confusing reliability with complexity.
Last bike I had that actually 'broke down' and couldn't be sorted there and then was a 1986 NS400R which ran a big end bearing over Ballacrye leap in 97.
A BMW unplugged its ECU lead, but that was fixed roadside.
Considering the amount of 'gubbins' that gets fitted to a bike nowadays, and the harsh environment it lives in, I'm surprised most manufacturers havent said 'fuck it'
Possibly the ktm dash issue is down to their supplier, because I doubt ktm actually make it. Probably somewhere in Shendong Province or wherever CP come from!

[MyLittleStudPony]

One of the reasons I got rid of my KTM was the dash misted up. Apparently they all do it but I worried there was a fair bit of electronics in there and something might not like the moister and shit itself.

I only have complete faith in Hondas. I'd like a BMW but they seem pretty unreliable these days. Or at least they did a few years ago when I looked into such things.

[Supermofo]

I think you're confusing reliability with complexity.

Yes and no. The issues are due to the complexity but some of the results are essentially the same as a mechanical breakdown and potentially as costly. Ducati took their bike back and from the sounds of it still haven't fixed it. MCN have had a few bikes not starting at all or cutting out and not restarting. Their 1290 had a multitude of problems that were never satisfactorily sorted.

Was comparing that to say 90s 2000s bikes where broadly breakdowns were pretty rare. Now taking a small sample of press bikes there seem an awful lot of problems with bikes that tend to a) be expensive and b) only run over 6-8 months.

[mangocrazy]

Possibly the ktm dash issue is down to their supplier, because I doubt ktm actually make it. Probably somewhere in Shendong Province or wherever CP come from!

That's a thought. I'd be scouring AliExpress or one of the other Chinese storefronts for a much cheaper (but probably identical) dash.

[JackyJoll]

For balance, here’s the ignition coil I took off my non-modern bike last weekend.

But then again, it’s a fairly modern coil.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Possibly the ktm dash issue is down to their supplier, because I doubt ktm actually make it. Probably somewhere in Shendong Province or wherever CP come from!

That's a thought. I'd be scouring AliExpress or one of the other Chinese storefronts for a much cheaper (but probably identical) dash.

OEMs basically don't make anything, despite the M. They haven't for decades.

[mangocrazy]

As posted in Jody's KTM 690 thread I found this on Ali Express after at least two minutes of searching:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004 ... nEjdcmWwtt

One tenth the price of the official KTM part.

[Buckaroo]

It does kinda feel they're trying to shoe horn loads of electronics in and leap forwards. It took the car industry a couple of decades to get all that stuff in and kinda working, a lot of debugging would have happened in the meantime. Of course a lot of the learning will read across though. Electronics in general though take alot of expense and a lot of expertise you wouldn't typically have in a bike OEM - most of our software types (and I work for an OEM don't forget) don't even like cars

Irony is, much of it is probably unnecessary But then nearly everything about a 'big' bike is unnecessary, soooo.....

That's what I like about my Guzzi. Very little electronic wizardry, easy to service at home and sounds like a proper bike, rather than a sewing machine. I seriously doubt that I will ever get another 'high -tech' bike.

Yes, the Guzzi isn't that powerful and is agricultural to an extent, but they're generally reliable.

[Horse]

Possibly the ktm dash issue is down to their supplier, because I doubt ktm actually make it. Probably somewhere in Shendong Province or wherever CP come from!

That's a thought. I'd be scouring AliExpress or one of the other Chinese storefronts for a much cheaper (but probably identical) dash.

OEMs basically don't make anything, despite the M. They haven't for decades.

I thought the 'E' was for Equipment, so companies like Bosch. Not the vehicle assembler?

[Mr. Dazzle]

As posted in Jody's KTM 690 thread I found this on Ali Express after at least two minutes of searching:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004 ... nEjdcmWwtt

One tenth the price of the official KTM part.

Not saying that one is, but you can bet your bottom dollar all the scrap ones end up on Ali Express

We shred our scrap for reasons like that