Grammar - what's this all about?

[Saga Lout]

Whys is it that in certain contexts people tend to omit the definite article with words that would normally demand it? I have often been struck by this, an have never quite worked out what's going on. Given that it is such common usage I think it is probably acceptable, but every time I hear it, my internal pedant grammar alarm goes off. So what's the deal? It's often in professional contexts, and in phrases dealing with location. Here are a few examples:

I was working on site
We don't have that in store today
Let's go back to camp
One of the other reps in resort told me

What's going on here? Why isn't it "the site" or "the resort"?

Which article would you use? Would you use the definite article or an indefinite article? "Working on the site" is as valid as "working on a site" but means something different. "Working on site" is different again.

[Mr. Dazzle]

We also have it the other way around compared to some languages.

"It's raining" for example. What's raining?

it's raining - it is raining

No confusion there, raining is a verb.

What about

il pluet - it rains

It's very much like you, and it doesn't suprise me, that you would choose to focus on it being about the weather rather than it being a general point. It is a shame that it is all you can do. It is also expected that you would frame it as an argument, because it is was you see everythings as.

Isn't it?

[moth]

We also have it the other way around compared to some languages.

"It's raining" for example. What's raining?

it's raining - it is raining

No confusion there, raining is a verb.

What about

il pluet - it rains

It's very much like you, and it doesn't suprise me, that you would choose to focus on it being about the weather rather than it being a general point. It is a shame that it is all you can do. It is also expected that you would frame it as an argument, because it is was you see everythings as.

Isn't it?

Well that is one meaning of the word, and given your appalling English language skills the one I'd expect you to light upon.

argument
n noun
1 a heated exchange of conflicting views.
2 a set of reasons given in support of something.
3 Mathematics & Logic an independent variable associated with a function or proposition and determining its value, e.g. x in y = F(x).
4 Linguistics any of the noun phrases in a clause that are related directly to the verb.
5 archaic a summary of the subject matter of a book.

ORIGIN
Middle English: via Old French from Latin argumentum, from arguere 'make clear, prove, accuse'.

[Skub]

I new moth wood be in hear fixing all they're borkened grammer skill's.

[Mr. Dazzle]

moth: stick it in your pipe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dummy_pronoun

Weather it
In the phrase "it is raining—", the verb to rain is usually considered semantically impersonal, even though it appears as syntactically intransitive; in this view, the required it is to be considered a dummy word.

Dummy pronouns are used in many Germanic languages, including German and English. Pronoun-dropping languages such as Spanish, Portuguese, Chinese, and Turkish do not require dummy pronouns

[cheb]

So why not say "the weather is rainy?".

That's my point, English had dropped the word weather or whatever and just has "it".

Edit: I suppose a less clear cut example would be "it's beginning to feel a lot like Christmas". What is? We all know what you mean, but what is the "it"?

It's so we can identify foreign spies when they are parachuted in.

Went your day well?

[moth]

moth: stick it in your pipe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dummy_pronoun

Weather it
In the phrase "it is raining—", the verb to rain is usually considered semantically impersonal, even though it appears as syntactically intransitive; in this view, the required it is to be considered a dummy word.

Dummy pronouns are used in many Germanic languages, including German and English. Pronoun-dropping languages such as Spanish, Portuguese, Chinese, and Turkish do not require dummy pronouns

Thanks for proving my point

[Yambo]

Surely, when it is raining, one just comments that "It has turned out normal again."

[Horse]

I was working on site

What's going on here? Why isn't it "the site" or "the resort"?

Which article would you use? Would you use the definite article or an indefinite article? "Working on the site" is as valid as "working on a site" but means something different. "Working on site" is different again.

Verbally, I hyphenate it. Written too.

i.e. I'll be working off-site today.

[wheelnut]

Time flies like an arrow.

Fruit flies like a banana.

[Buckaroo]

Time flies like an arrow.

Fruit flies like a banana.

I reckon f@£k it's
Sunday night and this thread has given me a headache.

[Gedge]

So why not say "the weather is rainy?".

That's my point, english had dropped the word weather or whatever and just has "it".

The three European languages that I speak, with varying degrees of fluency, don't use the indicative 'weather' or the progressive 'is ....ing'. there are no 'ing' word endings in German, French or Spanish AFAIK

es regen, il pluet, esta lloviendo - it rains.

So tell the Germans, French and Spanish that they're fucking wrong too

Now, was this just the 10 minute argument, or did you pay for the whole 30 minutes? :p

The word ending ‘iendo’ or ‘ando’ In Spanish is ING..the more normal phrase in Spanish would be Hace lluvia or it makes rain.

[Horse]

So why not say "the weather is rainy?".

That's my point, english had dropped the word weather or whatever and just has "it".

The three European languages that I speak, with varying degrees of fluency, don't use the indicative 'weather' or the progressive 'is ....ing'. there are no 'ing' word endings in German, French or Spanish AFAIK

es regen, il pluet, esta lloviendo - it rains.

So tell the Germans, French and Spanish that they're fucking wrong too

Now, was this just the 10 minute argument, or did you pay for the whole 30 minutes? :p

The word ending ‘iendo’ or ‘ando’ In Spanish is ING..the more normal phrase in Spanish would be Hace lluvia or it makes rain.

Back to Dazzle's question: what's the 'it'?

[moth]

The three European languages that I speak, with varying degrees of fluency, don't use the indicative 'weather' or the progressive 'is ....ing'. there are no 'ing' word endings in German, French or Spanish AFAIK

es regen, il pluet, esta lloviendo - it rains.

So tell the Germans, French and Spanish that they're fucking wrong too

Now, was this just the 10 minute argument, or did you pay for the whole 30 minutes? :p

The word ending ‘iendo’ or ‘ando’ In Spanish is ING..the more normal phrase in Spanish would be Hace lluvia or it makes rain.

Back to Dazzle's question: what's the 'it'?

The weather. Duh!

[Gedge]

The three European languages that I speak, with varying degrees of fluency, don't use the indicative 'weather' or the progressive 'is ....ing'. there are no 'ing' word endings in German, French or Spanish AFAIK

es regen, il pluet, esta lloviendo - it rains.

So tell the Germans, French and Spanish that they're fucking wrong too

Now, was this just the 10 minute argument, or did you pay for the whole 30 minutes? :p

The word ending ‘iendo’ or ‘ando’ In Spanish is ING..the more normal phrase in Spanish would be Hace lluvia or it makes rain.

Back to Dazzle's question: what's the 'it'?

I suppose it’s the accepted but unmentioned ‘weather’ (or maybe God, or the US governments HAARP programme depending upon your beliefs about who or what causes weather)


Using the verb 'hacer' (to make or to do) for weather expressions is an idiom, it completely makes sense to a spanish speaker but it sounds funny to an english speaker.

In english if you say "it makes hot" it doesn't make much sense It's the same sort of thing in spanish, if you say "está calor hoy" it doesn't make much sense when talking about weather.

[Horse]

Back to Dazzle's question: what's the 'it'?

The weather. Duh!

Nah, the weather is whatever is happening at that time, a description.

The weather isn't creating or causing rain.

Even 'climate' doesn't work, because that's a sort of description of average or typical weather.

[Mr. Dazzle]

I suppose it’s

What is?

It's* everywhere. Makes no logical sense, but also works very well

*There it** is again
**And again!

[Wreckless Rat]

It's amazing, there really is no limit to what you lot will bicker about.

[Horse]

Someone has to ...

It's amazing, there really is no limit to what you lot will bicker about.

No we won't:)

[JackyJoll]

At least we’re keeping English grammar, now that they been and gone and gotten Brexit done.