Supermofo wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2023 4:41 pm
Yes it was hot in the summer of 1976. But since 1884 the top 10 hottest years have all been in the last 20 years. 1976 was a famous anomaly, it's likely to become much more normal now. 1976 also a max temp of 36C, 2022 saw over 40C.
Then it's safe to assume the tropical storms that hit California 80 years apart are also anomalies... & the same can be said of the Libya floods, when was the last one?
There's a good case for recent higher temps being down to the locations & how temps are recorded (at least in the US). The linear warming trend since January 1979 remains at +0.14 C per decade.
Mr. Dazzle wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2023 4:23 pm
Oat milk FTW! Mostly 'cause we actually grow oats in this country.
I’ve just checked - Alpro Oat Milk, in big letters on the carton, says “100% European Oats - oh, and our oats are only SOURCED and GROWN in Europe!”
So it comes down into Cornwall in an artic, off a ferry, from somewhere unspecified in “Europe” in an artic. My cows milk comes from those cows in that field over there.
Cows milk in this country is local. Oat milk and its cousins is not. Carbon footprint? Bollix.
ZRX61 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2023 5:37 pm
There's a good case for recent higher temps being down to the locations & how temps are recorded (at least in the US). The linear warming trend since January 1979 remains at +0.14 C per decade.
The 0.14 deg increase is in degrees F from 1880 to 1981. The rate of warming since 1981 is more than twice as fast: 0.32° F (0.18° C) per decade.
Mr. Dazzle wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2023 4:23 pm
Oat milk FTW! Mostly 'cause we actually grow oats in this country.
I’ve just checked - Alpro Oat Milk, in big letters on the carton, says “100% European Oats - oh, and our oats are only SOURCED and GROWN in Europe!”
So it comes down into Cornwall in an artic, off a ferry, from somewhere unspecified in “Europe” in an artic. My cows milk comes from those cows in that field over there.
Cows milk in this country is local. Oat milk and its cousins is not. Carbon footprint? Bollix.
Lot bigger footprint to actually make the cows milk though. 3 times as much last time I looked, so you've got quite a big head start to drive across Europe. .
Course, you need to ship the oats, assuming they were made somewhere in Estonia, and not Devon for argument's sake. Or more likely Ukraine, come to think of it.
It's also only the oats which are (potentially) shipped, the water which makes up the great majority of said milk would be local.
And then what happens to all the cows when they stop making milk. Or all the boy cows. They all have to be "processed" somehow or another.
Its a complicated ol' mix.
Last edited by Mr. Dazzle on Wed Sep 13, 2023 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Where do you get the “3 times”? And I know what happens to the cows when they’ve finished milking, and the “boy cows”. I’m an omnivore, if it’s wastage you’re worrying about.
Wossname wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2023 6:20 pm
Where do you get the “3 times”? And I know what happens to the cows when they’ve finished milking, and the “boy cows”. I’m an omnivore, if it’s wastage you’re worrying about.
I'm not worrying about anything, I'm just pointing out you need to consider the whole process. There's a non trivial footprint associated with making and then disposing of cows.
Last edited by Mr. Dazzle on Wed Sep 13, 2023 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Boy cows, yum! Lady cows too, I am an equal opportunity omnivore
And my beef was born in Cornwall, fattened on grass locally and bought from a shop within walking distance. Milk I don't do, but useful for making cheese about 15 miles up the road.
ZRX61 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2023 5:37 pm
There's a good case for recent higher temps being down to the locations & how temps are recorded (at least in the US). The linear warming trend since January 1979 remains at +0.14 C per decade.
The 0.14 deg increase is in degrees F from 1880 to 1981. The rate of warming since 1981 is more than twice as fast: 0.32° F (0.18° C) per decade.
Climate change is real and I do mean the AGW version, caused by humans, measurable effect. The situation here is that climate change has been politicised and is being monetised. Mainstream media and their backers, have a vested interest in hyping up an already precarious situation, fear-mongering so they can whack up the bills while simultaneously doing fuck all to make any meaningful difference.
Without China and India on board and making any sort of effort to reduce their contributions, all hope is lost. America too are only interested in monetising and profiteering from cc. They (and we in the UK) are also contributing to massive greenhouse gas production by proxy since we still rely on China industry for, well, pretty much everything!
As has been said, even a slight overall increase in global temperature means a LOT more water vapour can remain in the atmosphere. More water vapour means more power in weather systems, greater extremes in both rainfall and drought etc. etc. I don’t think there is any causal effect between sea level per se and flooding IN THIS CASE (ie. In a literal desert) because I don’t think** it would have an appreciable effect on the underlying water table (in this case - same is not true in say Bangladesh; they are well and truly fucked with a rising sea level.
In once got caught in a flash flood in Libya. The sky turned black, the air became highly charged and then it absolutely hammered down. I was driving a Toyota Landcruiser across a narrow wadi, four souls on board. Probably 10 or 15 metres wide, we had to cross it to get back to base. It was a few inches deep when I entered the narrow gulley, by the time we reached the other side it was halfway up the doors. The rate of increase was extraordinary. I don’t know if we would necessarily have been killed (though incredibly, people do die in floods in deserts!) but I do know a few seconds later and we would not have drive out of there…
This was in the mid-late ‘80’s. Back then, it was just weather. So it’s nothing new, this sort of thing has been happening since time immemorial but it is getting worse and the extremes are getting wider and it is doing that at an accelerating rate, all in one direction.
I am with @ZRX61 on this though. The constant blaming of everything on climate change is tiresome especially when lazy reporting relies on the merest element of truth and don’t ever qualify or quantify the data on how often, how severe and how that compares with historical data. I guess it’s the dumbing down of the news we are criticising here.
“No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth.”
Plato
Mr. Dazzle wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2023 6:43 pm
Think of how many windfarms they could build in them cow fields you selfish bastard.
BTW one of the aforementioned environmental vegetarians I know keeps his own chickens for eggs. There's no irony in that, just maths
Apparently Biden has seriously misrepresented the amount of land needed to achieve the mythical net-zero. We need to find 134,000 square miles for the solar panels & windmills... & that's without all the landed needed for the infrastructure to connect it all to the grid.
Biden claimed it would need "“less than one-half of one percent of the contiguous U.S. land area” ... that would be around 15,000 square miles. A slight difference.
Edit: Just noticed the 134,000 square miles is ONLY for windmills, not solar panels.
Last edited by ZRX61 on Wed Sep 13, 2023 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Derna experienced major floods in 1942, 1959, 1968, and 1986. Not sure which ones of those were caused by rising sea levels or other climate change issues?
On the subject of ABC & their agenda driven narrative: They will claim that one out of the ordinary weather event IS evidence of climate change & within minutes claim that another out of the ordinary event is NOT evidence of climate change... when the truth of the matter is that neither is proof of anything except weather happens.
Without China and India on board and making any sort of effort to reduce their contributions, all hope is lost. America too are only interested in monetising and profiteering from cc. They (and we in the UK) are also contributing to massive greenhouse gas production by proxy since we still rely on China industry for, well, pretty much everything!
But China are making real efforts to move to renewables. They have more solar than the rest of the world combined and are now at over 50% of generation from non-fossil. That’s two years earlier than they predicted.
They still also burn more fossil fuels than the ROW combined tho but we need to shoulder a chunk of that as they produce most of the shite we buy.
It looks like the actual cause may be found in a report from a year or so ago that said the dams above Derna were all seriously compromised from lack of maintenance & were liable to fail...
ZRX61 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2023 9:43 pm
It looks like the actual cause may be found in a report from a year or so ago that said the dams above Derna were all seriously compromised from lack of maintenance & were liable to fail...
Does sounds like the dams are very likely suspects. Record rainfall wouldn't have helped though. Looking at the pics/satellite images it looks like something from a war zone the poor bastards
I think it's fair to say a carnivorous pet is significant from a CO2 point of view. Get yourself a good mouser though and you won't have to feed it. Or listen to bird song any more.
It's my understanding that cats either predate on small animals, mice, rats, rabbits etc, or on birds. It's a rare one that hunts and eats both. I'm told this is due to the mother cat teaching them to hunt.
Our cat has caught mice and birds, but is clueless what to with them after that. I think he regards them as playthings. His hunting skills are pretty poor to be honest. He only catches birds or mice when he either gets lucky or the prey does something unwise/stupid. I shudder to think what would happen if he ever came up against a rat...
ZRX61 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2023 5:37 pm
There's a good case for recent higher temps being down to the locations & how temps are recorded (at least in the US). The linear warming trend since January 1979 remains at +0.14 C per decade.
The 0.14 deg increase is in degrees F from 1880 to 1981. The rate of warming since 1981 is more than twice as fast: 0.32° F (0.18° C) per decade.
.
