Covid - newsworthy

[Count Steer]

If we're gonna set some bar (approved by Iccy, obvs) before we can call something bollox surely it's only fair that we have to set it right at the start of the process anyway SO, you know, single sentence posts with a blind link warrant a certain level of consideration...etc.

Awww...you edited it.

I liked 'blink link'. Y'know, the ones that you click on and blink in disbelief that:

a) the site has the gall to present such blatant, manipulative cobblers and
b) some people believe that 'this is real information I must share with everyone'.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Lets be fair, the person/source does matter and the tone of the article also gives you an immediate indication. Writing off ZRX's link as bollox (after actually reading it ) doesn't make me pharma's greatest champion.

If he'd actually read his own link he'd have seen it's nonsense. You don't even have to have medical knowledge.

[DefTrap]

You would expect that pharmaceutical companies would make a huge effort not to kill people with their medicines, and yet they still do sometimes.

There's a fine line between medicine and poison, hence obviously why it's so important to take the correct dose. And like I keep saying, the gathering of data continues post-release to determine whether a medication shows any adverse reactions in the field. So these reports are being assessed all the time by actual clinicians rather than blokes in the pub who (a) don't understand the science (b) leap to the conclusion that a decision of 'not related to medicinal product' means that The Man is trying to hide something from you.

[DefTrap]

formed a little group to rally in the defence of pharmaceutical companies

I don't think you really get it. The pharma company is actively encouraging me to prove that they may be fibbing or incompetent, and will frequently challenge me to provide evidence that I am continually trying to piss in their chips. Plus regulators independent of any pharma will come along and do the same thing. with the full backing of the law to try to throw me in the clink if I show evidence of being incompetent-in-the measuring-of or willfully-collaborating-in-any-naughty-pharma-doings.

There isn't really a club and if there was it's certainly not in defence of the pharma. If anything, I'm in the enemy camp.

[DefTrap]

Sounds like a dangerous job when they are demonstrably up to their necks in dishonesty and criminal behaviour on a reasonably regular basis.

Have any of your multi-national colleagues been found in collusion during these prosecutions?
And if they haven't then one can only assume that they were the whistle blowers and part of the prosecution?

What can I say, we are required by law to report to the authorities any naughty behaviour, any critical risks to patient safety or the integrity of the data. It's referred to as a Serious Breach, you are obliged to do this within seven days of notification (because you may or may not be surprised some people's idea of what consists a Serious Breach is fecking retarded. If 'reports' of the quality of the Graphene 'revelation' were included you'd be a laughing stock).

But whatever - all hilarity aside, there is a process. Use of it (actual reports of Serious Breach in organisations I've been involved in, to my knowledge over about 20 years or so) is infrequent. You can make your own unqualified or suspicious mind up as to how much that process itself is subject to abuse or corruption. All I can tell you is that there is layer upon layer of process designed to catch out any horrors, they are independent of each other, and personally it would make my day if I caught somebody in the act. Not so much if I myself was reported because that would mean I'd have been at least incompetent or myopic, but that's what you sign up for.

[ZRX61]

Sounds like a dangerous job when they are demonstrably up to their necks in dishonesty and criminal behaviour on a reasonably regular basis.

How can you say such a thing? I'm sure it's common across the industry to attempt sealing records for 75 years when they have nothing to hide...

[Mr. Dazzle]

This does feel a bit like the variable speed limit argument though somewhat.

"These variable speed limits don't prevent traffic jams, look there's no problem, we're all moving"

[DefTrap]

If you're saying it's infrequent then it demonstrates even more that these companies go to extraordinary lengths to hide their activities, avoid governance, scrutiny and audit. One would therefore assume that for every incident that they get caught for then there may be some that they don't get caught for and successfully avoid scrutiny and prosecution..

It's quite an assumption. You missed the bit where I said I don't work for them and I am essentially paid to find them out?
Or it could be that there are a collossal number of ongoing trials and I probably cover very few of them.

But yeah maybe they're cleverer than me.

[Noggin]

What I found really interesting in the initial anti vaccine stuff (I've not read any since cos I can't be arsed!) was that the risk of the vaccine was less than taking aspirin. Not to everyone, but there was a risk. But pretty much everyone would take an aspirin without thought of the risks because, you know, we've all been taking that for years.

Similar with HRT meds - many docs/practitioners won't prescribe it to certain groups because of the risks. Those risks are overall much less than the risk of taking the pill. Ok, only less tha 50% of the population take either, but why stop prescribing the lower risk one to older people when you're happy to prescribe the higher risk one to younger people


If a full on medical report proves that there are risks worth worrying about, I'd want to see other qualified peoples responses.

In the mean time, on the basis that most people my age take a flu vaccine every year without question, I will happily get the covid vaccine!!

[Count Steer]

Lets be fair, the person/source does matter and the tone of the article also gives you an immediate indication. Writing off ZRX's link as bollox (after actually reading it ) doesn't make me pharma's greatest champion.

If he'd actually read his own link he'd have seen it's nonsense. You don't even have to have medical knowledge.

If anyone posted some real information/data about the dastardly goings on about the vaccine I'd be at the barricades. I don't believe that Big Pharma (or agro-chem if you widen the scope) are all humanitarians with no thought for profit etc. What tightens my sphincter is when they post links to 'information' that is so clearly bollocks it's insulting to a chap's intelligence. Haul them up on it and it's all, 'Oh the real data is being suppressed, there's no free speech, oh woe! oh woe!'.

ZRX doesn't care...we're all talking about it...which seems to be the aim of the 'climate change isn't real anti-vaxxers'. Stir up the mud.

[Mr. Dazzle]

[gremlin]

Never mind all of that old bollocks, but we seem to having a bit of a Covid resurgence in my neck of the wood. I've got a guy at work of with it and my mate's daughter and husband are feeling sorry for themselves at home having tested positive.

Like all sequels, it seems a pale imitation of its previous incarnation. How's things round your ways?

[cheb]

Dunno, but I've been signed up for a booster jab this Saturday.

[DefTrap]

[
Some of the bollocks stories are simply bollocks, I agree, you have to sort the wheat from the chaff, but some of you seem partially sighted because of political bias, it seems that for some of you all Pharma is good because some right-wing halfwits are making up conspiracy stories and you're opposed to the right-wing so you'll immediately put up a wall in blanket defence.

Some (perhaps most) of the conspiracies are nonsense, but sometimes (demonstrably beyond doubt) the pharma companies are doing harm, acting illegally and supressing information.

It is this black and white denial of reality (because of political bias) that I dig my heels in over.

To be honest this is the same analogy as "all racists are right-wing but not all right-wingers are racists'".
Personally I know plenty of people who are left-wing / no-wing who have halfwit views when it comes to covid and vaccine "revelations". The common denominator is halfwit.

But whatever, we could discuss folks' motivations for ever, pointless.

I'm more interested in solutions. I've explained the complex processes, independent reviews, checks and measures that are in place to stop mistakes, incompetence and wrongdoing - before- these medications make it to market. Processes are constantly under review. Personally I don't get involved in post marketing review and analysis but I'm aware of those processes.

Are you going to offer any solutions or just scattergun ropey accusations? Finding fault is easy.

[Count Steer]

It is this black and white denial of reality (because of political bias) that I dig my heels in over.

To which my response is that if people stopped propagating nonsense disguised as scientific analysis generated by cynical sites (that I don't think actually believe the stuff they put out, it's simply stirring things up/lying for profit) there'd be less polarisation and more discussion. The more times people look at stuff like that graphene link ^^^^ the less attention they'll give to valid material if it's posted - they'll just shrug and say 'Meh, more crackpot conspiracy/contrarian nonsense'.

@gremlin While mooching about at the local hospital recently I suggested that the slackening off of covid cases must be a relief. The ward nurse said 'It's picking up again, we're getting into the next wave'. It seems immunity is on the wane. I didn't ask about severity of the current round/variant.

[JamJar]

I don't think anti vax is a left or right thing at all, a lot of anti vaxxers are lefty middle class wallies.

[gremlin]

I didn't ask about severity of the current round/variant.

I quote my poorly colleague: 'snotty and tired'.

My mate's son-in-law went out to play golf on Monday, so I think his condition could be described as 'moderately under the weather'.

[Mr. Dazzle]

It really is just like the flu! Loadsa people die from that (still more than Covid?) too and people don't talk about it.

I'm guessing they get bundled together now?

[DefTrap]

Like all sequels, it seems a pale imitation of its previous incarnation. How's things round your ways?

Having avoided it for 3 years, I think I've had it twice in 6 weeks (I tested +ve the first time, my missus twisted my arm to get tested, the second time I couldn't be bothered). My doc told me recently that there's a lot of it about but he didn't give me the impression that it was causing a massive problem.

My symptoms have been - coughing, lethargic, phlegmy - but nothing life threatening. I've kept up my morning running, PB today in fact.

[Cousin Jack]

Dunno, but I've been signed up for a booster jab this Saturday.

Ditto. Plus flu.