They're getting a load of old F-16s and a few weeks training. All Russia has to do is stick a few S-400 SAM systems well inside their own territory and they'll simply remove the F-16s from the sky.
Its not like sending a load of amateurs with AKs into Ukraine, the Russian air force is as professional as any other and they'll make a concerted effort to down those jets. And they'll do it.
I'm not so sure, Russia doesn't have air superiority and Ukraine has managed to keep some old Migs still flying.
If the Ukrainians are clever they'll be making much of flying the F16s when they get them and then letting drones simulate them into contested airspace and let the RuSSians expend very expensive and with low replacement rate S400 interceptors knocking down fake F16s, all the time giving the Ukranians locations for the very expensive S400 radars.
But can a drone really simulate an F-16 at 500 knots?
The S-400s won't just be sitting all alone, they'll be protected by Buks and other shorter range weapons. Chances are that even if Ukraine came across a huge stash of HARMs, they'd just have a pretty fireworks show.
The whole thing is grinding down into a bloody stalemate. Fancy jets in huge numbers couldn't win Vietnam for the yanks, a few elderly F-16s won't win against Russia who will just keep sending poorly trained conscripts in enough numbers to eventually bleed Ukraine dry.
Mussels wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 10:25 pm
I'm not so sure, Russia doesn't have air superiority and Ukraine has managed to keep some old Migs still flying.
If the Ukrainians are clever they'll be making much of flying the F16s when they get them and then letting drones simulate them into contested airspace and let the RuSSians expend very expensive and with low replacement rate S400 interceptors knocking down fake F16s, all the time giving the Ukranians locations for the very expensive S400 radars.
But can a drone really simulate an F-16 at 500 knots?
The S-400s won't just be sitting all alone, they'll be protected by Buks and other shorter range weapons. Chances are that even if Ukraine came across a huge stash of HARMs, they'd just have a pretty fireworks show.
The whole thing is grinding down into a bloody stalemate. Fancy jets in huge numbers couldn't win Vietnam for the yanks, a few elderly F-16s won't win against Russia who will just keep sending poorly trained conscripts in enough numbers to eventually bleed Ukraine dry.
The Israelis used drones to good effect to force the Syrian air defences to expose themselves. For this conflict, who knows, hopefully the Ukrainians use the F16's wisely and hopefully the Russians don't.
"Of all the stories you told me, which ones were true and which ones weren't?"
"My dear Doctor, they're all true."
"Even the lies?"
"Especially the lies."
Bigjawa wrote: ↑Sun Aug 20, 2023 9:40 am
The whole thing is grinding down into a bloody stalemate. Fancy jets in huge numbers couldn't win Vietnam for the yanks, a few elderly F-16s won't win against Russia who will just keep sending poorly trained conscripts in enough numbers to eventually bleed Ukraine dry.
Potter wrote: ↑Sun Aug 20, 2023 12:02 pm
And to what end? So the yanks can restore Ukraine back to being one of the most corrupt countries on the planet?
I don't want any more of my tax money being given to them, I couldn't give a monkeys if it ends up being run by Russia, at least anymore than I care about who runs Somalia or any other place I don't care about.
Potter wrote: ↑Sun Aug 20, 2023 12:02 pm
And to what end? So the yanks can restore Ukraine back to being one of the most corrupt countries on the planet?
I don't want any more of my tax money being given to them, I couldn't give a monkeys if it ends up being run by Russia, at least anymore than I care about who runs Somalia or any other place I don't care about.
Potter wrote: ↑Sun Aug 20, 2023 12:02 pm
And to what end? So the yanks can restore Ukraine back to being one of the most corrupt countries on the planet?
I don't want any more of my tax money being given to them, I couldn't give a monkeys if it ends up being run by Russia, at least anymore than I care about who runs Somalia or any other place I don't care about.
So why single out Ukraine? Are you trying to tell us that Russia isn't corrupt, or that the USA (and the UK for that matter) aren't corrupt? I'd venture to say that support for Ukraine is more concerned with stopping Putin's creeping annexation of all the former USSR states than "mirror mirror on the wall, who's the corruptest of them all"...
Potter wrote: ↑Sun Aug 20, 2023 12:02 pm
And to what end? So the yanks can restore Ukraine back to being one of the most corrupt countries on the planet?
I don't want any more of my tax money being given to them, I couldn't give a monkeys if it ends up being run by Russia, at least anymore than I care about who runs Somalia or any other place I don't care about.
Out of interest, do you care about Taiwan?
Come on KD, you know how this works.
Ask everyone else first and give him time to do a quick headcount before he decides which contrary view to take
Bigjawa wrote: ↑Sun Aug 20, 2023 9:40 am
The whole thing is grinding down into a bloody stalemate. Fancy jets in huge numbers couldn't win Vietnam for the yanks, a few elderly F-16s won't win against Russia who will just keep sending poorly trained conscripts in enough numbers to eventually bleed Ukraine dry.
That was down to Rules of Engagement, not the ability of the aircraft.
Potter wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 3:26 am
I see it for what it is and that's my view.
If you think pumping weapons and money into Ukraine is the answer then frankly I don't think you know what the question is, and indeed I'd suggest that fighting imaginary Bolsheviks outside our borders seems to be creating a lot of real ones inside our own borders.
The USA and UK are failing to properly govern their own countries and IMO no amount of invasions, wars and proxies will save the day, even if they do manage to convince most of you to go along for the ride.
Bigjawa wrote: ↑Sun Aug 20, 2023 9:40 am
The whole thing is grinding down into a bloody stalemate. Fancy jets in huge numbers couldn't win Vietnam for the yanks, a few elderly F-16s won't win against Russia who will just keep sending poorly trained conscripts in enough numbers to eventually bleed Ukraine dry.
That was down to Rules of Engagement, not the ability of the aircraft.
I don't doubt the ability of the aircraft, even though it must have came as a rude surprise when they found out they couldn't Fox 1 their way out if trouble, I mean they dropped enough explosives on North Vietnam to change the height of mountains and they still lost because the NVs kept sending enough little guys with AKs to make the US give it up as a bad job.
Unlike the US, Putin doesn't care how many kids he sends home in bags as long as he wins.
Bigjawa wrote: ↑Sun Aug 20, 2023 9:40 am
The whole thing is grinding down into a bloody stalemate. Fancy jets in huge numbers couldn't win Vietnam for the yanks, a few elderly F-16s won't win against Russia who will just keep sending poorly trained conscripts in enough numbers to eventually bleed Ukraine dry.
That was down to Rules of Engagement, not the ability of the aircraft.
Not forgetting of course with that comparison regards the unwinnable Vietnam war, the Russian invaders are the US and the Ukrainians are the indigenous VC.
“No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth.”
Plato
Potter wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 3:26 am
I see it for what it is and that's my view.
If you think pumping weapons and money into Ukraine is the answer then frankly I don't think you know what the question is, and indeed I'd suggest that fighting imaginary Bolsheviks outside our borders seems to be creating a lot of real ones inside our own borders.
The USA and UK are failing to properly govern their own countries and IMO no amount of invasions, wars and proxies will save the day, even if they do manage to convince most of you to go along for the ride.
Pssst, ever heard of NATO? After Ukraine Poland and Baltic states, then Finland, then ...
Blades as sharp as you said the same thing about Nazi Germany.
"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people." - Giordano Bruno
irie wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 6:04 pm
Pssst, ever heard of NATO? After Ukraine Poland and Baltic states, then Finland, then ...
Blades as sharp as you said the same thing about Nazi Germany.
And by that logic the Irish wanting part of their island back means they won't stop at that, so on to mainland UK, France, Germany, etc?
Perhaps Russia should give the IRA a squadron of F16's?
Posted elsewhere on RTTL but I guess you missed it.
Article by Vladimir Putin ”On the Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians“, July 12, 2021
