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[Screwdriver]

But if you took 100 normal everyday folk and 100 transvestites/transexuals/transgenders/LGBTQ+ identifying people, which group is most likely to have the greater proportion of sexual deviants, weirdos or paedos?

I thought you were a proponent of critical thinking?

The ratio of 'norms' to 'other is approximately 15 to 1. That's quite a lot of assumed additional perversion before the odds are even equal.

How does that affect the proportion of 100 people selected at random from their respective group?

[Potter]

I do enjoy these little lectures that Potter gives from time to time, telling us stuff we already knew but trying to make himself feel superior just for pointing out the obvious.

I have no issue with what Potter wrote; it seems perfectly reasonable and mirrors my views on gay/trans/goths. It was just that it was presented in a way that inferred that most of 'us' felt differently. I don't think that is the case.

I politely disagree with you in the first instance that I was posting to appear superior, and also on your second challenge that I was preaching to the choir, indeed it appears to be the case that some posters here do disagree and do not share our mutual viewpoint on the full acceptance of trans people.

It's created about four pages of polite and sensible debate and a finger in the air gauge suggests about 50/50 for and against, with no unpleasant arguments or issues. I anticipated a split in viewpoints and it seems I was accurate in my analysis of the mix, I felt that my post was neither superior nor condescending, but worded in a way which provoked critical thinking and interesting views.
It's been an interesting read.

[DefTrap]

How does that affect the proportion of 100 people selected at random from their respective group?

The sizes of the populations of 'normal' vs 'different' is relevant - the proportion of perversity is guesswork - I'm sure plenty have their opinion but it's probably based upon some shifty analysis.

Dealing with some facts and maths.

In a hypothetical town of 10,000 people.
700 are likely to be 'different'. (roughly 7% is a real figure, so we are told).
If 1 in 10 of the 'normal' people is a pervert - 1000.
Then all the 'different' ones are going to have to be perverts before 'different' and 'perverted' starts to be relevant.

So, either the 'different' ones are going to need to be massively more perverse than the 'normal' population, or the 'different' population (and this is only where proportion becomes relevant) is going to have to increase hugely against the 'normal' population.
Neither of those outcomes is likely - the first assumption is terrible prejudice, the second is based upon fear.
And, by the way, throwing in the poor old standard homosexuals & lesbians to bulk up the 'different' group is hugely unfair. Haven't they had enough?

[Potter]

Would you date one or be inclined to 'give her (a transwoman) one' if the situation arose? Don't bother replying that you're a happily married man so the situation wouldn't arise, there's been many a 'happily married man' on here that's made the 'I'd give it one comment'.

I'd be happy to give you one if the mood took me
If you put a frock on and a bit of lippy then it's a cert.

I'm fully heterosexual and I cannot get aroused by men, so my fairly obvious answer is that if it was clearly a man in a wig then no, but if the human being in front of me was an attractive woman in every way and indistinguishable from anything else then I would - for all I know I have and don't know she was actually born as a biological man - did you do DNA tests and ask for birth certs of everyone you had sex with?

Here is a question, if you had a night of passion with a post-op transsexual in the genuine belief it was a woman, and you had a terrific time and were at no point unhappy with the events of the evening and left thinking it was a lovely evening with a lovely woman....but you subsequently found out that it was someone that transitioned, would that change your view of the night?
I personally wouldn't give a monkeys.

[mangocrazy]

I do enjoy these little lectures that Potter gives from time to time, telling us stuff we already knew but trying to make himself feel superior just for pointing out the obvious.

I have no issue with what Potter wrote; it seems perfectly reasonable and mirrors my views on gay/trans/goths. It was just that it was presented in a way that inferred that most of 'us' felt differently. I don't think that is the case.

I politely disagree with you in the first instance that I was posting to appear superior, and also on your second challenge that I was preaching to the choir, indeed it appears to be the case that some posters here do disagree and do not share our mutual viewpoint on the full acceptance of trans people.

It's created about four pages of polite and sensible debate and a finger in the air gauge suggests about 50/50 for and against, with no unpleasant arguments or issues. I anticipated a split in viewpoints and it seems I was accurate in my analysis of the mix, I felt that my post was neither superior nor condescending, but worded in a way which provoked critical thinking and interesting views.
It's been an interesting read.

Fair cop, guv...

[gremlin]

I have spent a few evenings wearing a full-on frock and make up. What I would say, is that standing up for a piss in an evening dress is not a simple task.

[DefTrap]

I have spent a few evenings wearing a full-on frock and make up. What I would say, is that standing up for a piss in an evening dress is not a simple task.

Ah good old fashioned cross dressing, not this modern shite.

[Yambo]

My daughter has been places (Jordanian desert, Amazon jungle) where there are no safe spaces. She didnt die, or even feel threatened.

I think it's entirely possible that the people in those places (and there will be many other people and places around the world) simply have more respect for women?

There are some fairly obvious cultural differences between the UK and where I live. One is that I and others can generally feel safer here than in the UK. A couple of examples:

I can be walking home after an evening out and there'll be a bunch of young lads having a beer or two and blocking the pathway. In the UK that could be intimidating for some people, the elderly for example or a woman on her own. I should stress that I didn't get intimidated in those situations and don't now, I was and still am a biggish guy and would be moving confidently so not likely to be a target for people out to cause a bit of mischief but many others may well be uncomfortable. Here, the lads will move apart, say good evening, offer me a drink of their beer (or even rakı) and would be generally hospitable. A woman on her own would be treated with complete respect and I don't know any woman in this village who would worry about walking home alone in the early hours of the morning.

It's rare to see young, teenage women out and about in the evening but plenty of lads of the same age. Now, if you put those two points together, the only women out on their own late at night will not be local Turkish girls and the fact that women on their own can and do feel safe indicates that the young men here are more respectful, in general, towards older people and women. I very much doubt the same women, in the UK, would not feel as safe. I'm guessing that wheelnut, who visits Içmeler regularly, will say the same about there.

Young females here do not have to be worried about being exposed to some blokes meat and two veg whilst in the ladies loo. It ain't gonna happen but has happened in the UK. They even put a male sex offender into a woman's jail because he 'identified as a woman'. It was no real surprise to right thinking people when he subsequently raped or sexually abused two women.

How many instances of this sort of lunacy are unacceptable to the 'inclusive' brigade? There'll be a number I'm sure - we had a Secretary of State for Northern Ireland once who used the phrase "an acceptable level of violence" in relation to the Northern Ireland Troubles. Stupidity and acceptance of bad behaviour is clearly not reserved for the chattering classes and there are some people on here it seems that are quite happy to accept some possibly criminal behaviour in their current beliefs. I wonder how much is too much for them.

[Yambo]

Would you date one or be inclined to 'give her (a transwoman) one' if the situation arose? Don't bother replying that you're a happily married man so the situation wouldn't arise, there's been many a 'happily married man' on here that's made the 'I'd give it one comment'.

I'd be happy to give you one if the mood took me
If you put a frock on and a bit of lippy then it's a cert.

You fuckin' lied to me! You were really in the Royal Marines!

And so was gremlin!

[Screwdriver]

How does that affect the proportion of 100 people selected at random from their respective group?

The sizes of the populations of 'normal' vs 'different' is relevant - the proportion of perversity is guesswork - I'm sure plenty have their opinion but it's probably based upon some shifty analysis.

Dealing with some facts and maths.

In a hypothetical town of 10,000 people.
700 are likely to be 'different'. (roughly 7% is a real figure, so we are told).
If 1 in 10 of the 'normal' people is a pervert - 1000.
Then all the 'different' ones are going to have to be perverts before 'different' and 'perverted' starts to be relevant.

So, either the 'different' ones are going to need to be massively more perverse than the 'normal' population, or the 'different' population (and this is only where proportion becomes relevant) is going to have to increase hugely against the 'normal' population.
Neither of those outcomes is likely - the first assumption is terrible prejudice, the second is based upon fear.
And, by the way, throwing in the poor old standard homosexuals & lesbians to bulk up the 'different' group is hugely unfair. Haven't they had enough?

I am not sure how you define "different" and I was careful to pose a question regarding only self identifying trans/LGBTQ. I did this so that trans/LGBTQ people are included as everyday normal folk, which I suggest, they are.

Those people who overtly identify as trans/LGBTQ are those I would classify as the activist/troublemakers. I propose those activists are not representative of the "normal" everyday trans/LGTBQ community. In fact I strongly suspect it has been hijacked deliberately by troublemakers and infiltrated by sexual deviants who are using those groups as cover in order to hide in plain sight.

Merely being gay is not "different" in my book but is of course perfectly typical human behaviour. Why do you suggest otherwise?

[JackyJoll]

I have a couple of questions for all those who want to fully accept transgender people into all aspects of society:

Would you date one or be inclined to 'give her (a transwoman) one' if the situation arose? Don't bother replying that you're a happily married man so the situation wouldn't arise, there's been many a 'happily married man' on here that's made the 'I'd give it one comment'.

There’s nothing new about all this.

[DefTrap]

I used 'different' for simplicity of not writing 'self identifying trans/LGBTQ' a load of times - I hope that explains any miscommunication. I believe approximately 7% is an agreed figure for 'self identifying trans/LGBTQ'.

I still say the populations are relevant because it puts 'the problem of deviant infiltration' in context. If 7% of the population are 'self identifying trans/LGBTQ' then there must surely be a smaller proportion of 'deviant infiltrators'. Putting that in context against the likelihood of deviance amongst the much larger 'normal' population leaves me thinking that the impact of 'deviant infiltrators' within trans/LGBTQ communities is being exaggerated. It seems to be straightforward mathematics rather than somewhat guesswork.

So maybe we should be asking ourselves why is this impact being exaggerated?

[Cousin Jack]

I think the point is not that trans people are sexual deiviants, but that sexual deviants can and do identify as trans just to get access where they can perve

[Bigjawa]

Are you the front man of a past-its-best 90's band? Not had any top-selling albums lately? In need of some publicity to promote the latest tour?

Fret not!! Let the Italian government help you out! Just throw out a random insult at the current PM and we'll provide all the publicity you'll ever need!

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https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66374034

Giorgia Meloni: Italian PM sues Placebo frontman for defamation




Brian Molko must be pissing himself laughing. All his birthdays and Christmases at once.

He's quite fond of the Fender Bass VI. Obviously a wrong 'un....

Back when he was on TOTP doing Nancy Boy, he bore a frightening resemblance to a girlfriend I had at school. Kinda ironic considering some of the posts on this thread....

[DefTrap]

I think the point is not that trans people are sexual deiviants, but that sexual deviants can and do identify as trans just to get access where they can perve

Is this like the 'not all Leavers are racists' but 'all racists are Leavers' argument?
Because that went well didn't it.

It completely ignores the fact that the majority of pervs are straight blokes. If you're worried about pervs, lock all straight blokes up, the perving rate will drop through the floor. Instant success.
Lock up all the lbgtq population, you won't get so much of an impact.

[MyLittleStudPony]

I think the point is not that trans people are sexual deiviants, but that sexual deviants can and do identify as trans just to get access where they can perve

This seems a bizarre and naive theory.

[Cousin Jack]

It is not that argument at all. It is a rational explanation of why some people who 'identify' as trans are not trans at all, they are just perverts.

How you identify those is above my pay grade, but a clue might be that they had commited sex crimes as a man before deciding they were trans.

[Cousin Jack]

I think the point is not that trans people are sexual deiviants, but that sexual deviants can and do identify as trans just to get access where they can perve

This seems a bizarre and naive theory.

More of a fact than a theory.

[MyLittleStudPony]

I think the point is not that trans people are sexual deiviants, but that sexual deviants can and do identify as trans just to get access where they can perve

This seems a bizarre and naive theory.

More of a fact than a theory.

You've fear zoned yourself into inventing bogeymen.

[MyLittleStudPony]

I don't see how what you seem to be concerned about really happens.

Ok, let's say someone pretends to be trans in order to enter a women's changing room or lavatory in order to non-consensually meet some sort of sexual goal.

Now they're in there and they're confronted with a load of cubicles. What happens now?