In todays news...

[MrLongbeard]

Of course kids should be taught about trans folk, it's the 21st century and we're supposed to be open and accepting of mental illnesses.

[gremlin]

Remember Tom Leppard?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-hi ... s-36537234

He went full branch with the leopard look: teeth, tattoos, etc.

He's now dead, but if he were have his time again, and ask us today to accept his self-identifying as a bone-fide leopard, how many would have the nerve to tell him he was bat-shit crazy...sorry, 'troubled'?

[gremlin]

Of course kids should be taught about trans folk, it's the 21st century and we're supposed to be open and accepting of mental illnesses.

If a kid wants to identify as a corpse, should we support their transitioning via suicide? Or try to find out the reason they want to identify as a corpse?

[DefTrap]

I have a couple of questions for all those who want to fully accept transgender people into all aspects of society:

Would you date one or be inclined to 'give her (a transwoman) one' if the situation arose?

I think this unnecessarily provocative. I know a guy who's literally blown his straight marriage up, because it turns out he fancies transwomen - yeah, it's a thing - he actively fancies transwomen more than straight women. I feel sorry for him because he's made his own life really precarious - I wouldn't dream of calling him out for birth-woman vs trans-woman hypocrisy.
Would I date a transwoman? Probably not but I don't think this proves much other than how difficult the whole situation of acceptance is.

Do you think it's acceptable for your daughters to not be given safe spaces away from predatory males?

This makes no sense. If this was really a solution then we wouldn't let toilets and changing rooms to be shared by children and adults at all. Again provocative - massive assumption that there's a high chance of a transwoman being a peado.

[MrLongbeard]

Of course kids should be taught about trans folk, it's the 21st century and we're supposed to be open and accepting of mental illnesses.

If a kid wants to identify as a corpse, should we support their transitioning via suicide? Or try to find out the reason they want to identify as a corpse?

I find it odd, not so odd that I really give or shit or give it any real thought, but odd none the less, that body integrity dysphoria, apotemnophilia, etc are accepted as mental illnesses and treatment is though medication and CBT yet this trans stuff is enabled, where to me they seem to be jsut different branches of the same tree.

[wheelnut]

I find it odd, not so odd that I really give or shit or give it any real thought, but odd none the less, that body integrity dysphoria, apotemnophilia, etc are accepted as mental illnesses and treatment is though medication and CBT yet this trans stuff is enabled, where to me they seem to be jsut different branches of the same tree.

Ok, so if we are viewing it as a mental illlness, what would you say the best treatment for that mental illness is? To have them act in a way that embraces how they feel or for them to try to supress it?

[MrLongbeard]

I find it odd, not so odd that I really give or shit or give it any real thought, but odd none the less, that body integrity dysphoria, apotemnophilia, etc are accepted as mental illnesses and treatment is though medication and CBT yet this trans stuff is enabled, where to me they seem to be jsut different branches of the same tree.

Ok, so if we are viewing it as a mental illlness, what would you say the best treatment for that mental illness is? To have them act in a way that embraces how they feel or for them to try to supress it?

Not even going to touch that, it's my opinion and I'm not trying to persuade anyone of its validity, I have no idea how they would be best served.

[gremlin]

Are you the front man of a past-its-best 90's band? Not had any top-selling albums lately? In need of some publicity to promote the latest tour?

Fret not!! Let the Italian government help you out! Just throw out a random insult at the current PM and we'll provide all the publicity you'll ever need!

This ad has been brought to you by the Brother's of Italy political party.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66374034

Giorgia Meloni: Italian PM sues Placebo frontman for defamation




Brian Molko must be pissing himself laughing. All his birthdays and Christmases at once.

[KungFooBob]

I always thought Brian was a bit of a Nancy Boy.

[Screwdriver]

Would you be happy with your pre-pubescent daughters sharing toilets and changing rooms at school or the local swimming pool with males, perhaps ones a couple of years older than your daughter. Telling me you don't have a daughter or your daughters are old enough to not be affected isn't going to cut it - treat it like a thought experiment. Do you think it's acceptable for your daughters to not be given safe spaces away from predatory males?

What about your pre-pubescent son sharing a male changing room with a bloke? He might be a raging peado, or a bloke simply going for a swim. Maybe he likes dressing up in women's clothes on a Sunday. Maybe he's totally asexual, or possibly into scat action.

Or maybe the lady who's sharing a changing room with pre-pubescent daughter is a secret lezza who's gonna flick the bean later at the memory of it all.

Ya just never know, do you?

People behave as people do. You cannot allow prejudice to cloud your judgement with regards to any individual. Not by "gender identity", colour, race, creed. You never know what someone is like until you know who someone is. Even then, you never know..

But if you took 100 normal everyday folk and 100 transvestites/transexuals/transgenders/LGBTQ+ identifying people, which group is most likely to have the greater proportion of sexual deviants, weirdos or paedos?

Pictures or videos would help but I'll be damned if I'm posting some of the crap that's literally "out there".

Oh and for anyone who feels the need to bite my head off, draw yourself Venn diagram first.

Another option for which there may even be contemporary data would be to assess a group of convicted sexual predators and convicts from non sexual crime and see what proportion of each were or had been or claimed to be transexual/trans<whatever>/LGBTQWERTY.

[gremlin]

I always thought Brian was a bit of a Nancy Boy.

Keep him out of changing rooms, just to be sure.

[MyLittleStudPony]

Would you be happy with your pre-pubescent daughters sharing toilets and changing rooms at school or the local swimming pool with males, perhaps ones a couple of years older than your daughter. Telling me you don't have a daughter or your daughters are old enough to not be affected isn't going to cut it - treat it like a thought experiment. Do you think it's acceptable for your daughters to not be given safe spaces away from predatory males?

What about your pre-pubescent son sharing a male changing room with a bloke? He might be a raging peado, or a bloke simply going for a swim. Maybe he likes dressing up in women's clothes on a Sunday. Maybe he's totally asexual, or possibly into scat action.

Or maybe the lady who's sharing a changing room with pre-pubescent daughter is a secret lezza who's gonna flick the bean later at the memory of it all.

Ya just never know, do you?

People behave as people do. You cannot allow prejudice to cloud your judgement with regards to any individual. Not by "gender identity", colour, race, creed. You never know what someone is like until you know who someone is. Even then, you never know..

But if you took 100 normal everyday folk and 100 transvestites/transexuals/transgenders/LGBTQ+ identifying people, which group is most likely to have the greater proportion of sexual deviants, weirdos or paedos?

Pictures or videos would help but I'll be damned if I'm posting some of the crap that's literally "out there".

Oh and for anyone who feels the need to bite my head off, draw yourself Venn diagram first.

Another option for which there may even be contemporary data would be to assess a group of convicted sexual predators and convicts from non sexual crime and see what proportion of each were or had been or claimed to be transexual/trans<whatever>/LGBTQWERTY.

Would you put all black people in prison on that basis too? They commit more crimes so they're all guilty.

Anyway, what's wrong with having an exciting sex life or being weird? Do you think you're mister normal?

[Yambo]

What about your pre-pubescent son sharing a male changing room with a bloke? He might be a raging peado, or a bloke simply going for a swim. Maybe he likes dressing up in women's clothes on a Sunday. Maybe he's totally asexual, or possibly into scat action.

Or maybe the lady who's sharing a changing room with pre-pubescent daughter is a secret lezza who's gonna flick the bean later at the memory of it all.

Ya just never know, do you?

People behave as people do. You cannot allow prejudice to cloud your judgement with regards to any individual. Not by "gender identity", colour, race, creed. You never know what someone is like until you know who someone is. Even then, you never know..

But if you took 100 normal everyday folk and 100 transvestites/transexuals/transgenders/LGBTQ+ identifying people, which group is most likely to have the greater proportion of sexual deviants, weirdos or paedos?

Pictures or videos would help but I'll be damned if I'm posting some of the crap that's literally "out there".

Oh and for anyone who feels the need to bite my head off, draw yourself Venn diagram first.

Another option for which there may even be contemporary data would be to assess a group of convicted sexual predators and convicts from non sexual crime and see what proportion of each were or had been or claimed to be transexual/trans<whatever>/LGBTQWERTY.

Would you put all black people in prison on that basis too? They commit more crimes so they're all guilty.

No, they're not all guilty but it doesn't surprise me that you think they all are.

[DefTrap]

But if you took 100 normal everyday folk and 100 transvestites/transexuals/transgenders/LGBTQ+ identifying people, which group is most likely to have the greater proportion of sexual deviants, weirdos or paedos?

I thought you were a proponent of critical thinking?

The ratio of 'norms' to 'other is approximately 15 to 1. That's quite a lot of assumed additional perversion before the odds are even equal.

[Screwdriver]

But if you took 100 normal everyday folk and 100 transvestites/transexuals/transgenders/LGBTQ+ identifying people, which group is most likely to have the greater proportion of sexual deviants, weirdos or paedos?

I thought you were a proponent of critical thinking?

The ratio of 'norms' to 'other is approximately 15 to 1. That's quite a lot of assumed additional perversion before the odds are even equal.

How does that affect the proportion of 100 people selected at random from their respective group?

[DefTrap]

How does that affect the proportion of 100 people selected at random from their respective group?

The sizes of the populations of 'normal' vs 'different' is relevant - the proportion of perversity is guesswork - I'm sure plenty have their opinion but it's probably based upon some shifty analysis.

Dealing with some facts and maths.

In a hypothetical town of 10,000 people.
700 are likely to be 'different'. (roughly 7% is a real figure, so we are told).
If 1 in 10 of the 'normal' people is a pervert - 1000.
Then all the 'different' ones are going to have to be perverts before 'different' and 'perverted' starts to be relevant.

So, either the 'different' ones are going to need to be massively more perverse than the 'normal' population, or the 'different' population (and this is only where proportion becomes relevant) is going to have to increase hugely against the 'normal' population.
Neither of those outcomes is likely - the first assumption is terrible prejudice, the second is based upon fear.
And, by the way, throwing in the poor old standard homosexuals & lesbians to bulk up the 'different' group is hugely unfair. Haven't they had enough?

[mangocrazy]

I do enjoy these little lectures that Potter gives from time to time, telling us stuff we already knew but trying to make himself feel superior just for pointing out the obvious.

I have no issue with what Potter wrote; it seems perfectly reasonable and mirrors my views on gay/trans/goths. It was just that it was presented in a way that inferred that most of 'us' felt differently. I don't think that is the case.

I politely disagree with you in the first instance that I was posting to appear superior, and also on your second challenge that I was preaching to the choir, indeed it appears to be the case that some posters here do disagree and do not share our mutual viewpoint on the full acceptance of trans people.

It's created about four pages of polite and sensible debate and a finger in the air gauge suggests about 50/50 for and against, with no unpleasant arguments or issues. I anticipated a split in viewpoints and it seems I was accurate in my analysis of the mix, I felt that my post was neither superior nor condescending, but worded in a way which provoked critical thinking and interesting views.
It's been an interesting read.

Fair cop, guv...

[gremlin]

I have spent a few evenings wearing a full-on frock and make up. What I would say, is that standing up for a piss in an evening dress is not a simple task.

[DefTrap]

I have spent a few evenings wearing a full-on frock and make up. What I would say, is that standing up for a piss in an evening dress is not a simple task.

Ah good old fashioned cross dressing, not this modern shite.

[Yambo]

My daughter has been places (Jordanian desert, Amazon jungle) where there are no safe spaces. She didnt die, or even feel threatened.

I think it's entirely possible that the people in those places (and there will be many other people and places around the world) simply have more respect for women?

There are some fairly obvious cultural differences between the UK and where I live. One is that I and others can generally feel safer here than in the UK. A couple of examples:

I can be walking home after an evening out and there'll be a bunch of young lads having a beer or two and blocking the pathway. In the UK that could be intimidating for some people, the elderly for example or a woman on her own. I should stress that I didn't get intimidated in those situations and don't now, I was and still am a biggish guy and would be moving confidently so not likely to be a target for people out to cause a bit of mischief but many others may well be uncomfortable. Here, the lads will move apart, say good evening, offer me a drink of their beer (or even rakı) and would be generally hospitable. A woman on her own would be treated with complete respect and I don't know any woman in this village who would worry about walking home alone in the early hours of the morning.

It's rare to see young, teenage women out and about in the evening but plenty of lads of the same age. Now, if you put those two points together, the only women out on their own late at night will not be local Turkish girls and the fact that women on their own can and do feel safe indicates that the young men here are more respectful, in general, towards older people and women. I very much doubt the same women, in the UK, would not feel as safe. I'm guessing that wheelnut, who visits Içmeler regularly, will say the same about there.

Young females here do not have to be worried about being exposed to some blokes meat and two veg whilst in the ladies loo. It ain't gonna happen but has happened in the UK. They even put a male sex offender into a woman's jail because he 'identified as a woman'. It was no real surprise to right thinking people when he subsequently raped or sexually abused two women.

How many instances of this sort of lunacy are unacceptable to the 'inclusive' brigade? There'll be a number I'm sure - we had a Secretary of State for Northern Ireland once who used the phrase "an acceptable level of violence" in relation to the Northern Ireland Troubles. Stupidity and acceptance of bad behaviour is clearly not reserved for the chattering classes and there are some people on here it seems that are quite happy to accept some possibly criminal behaviour in their current beliefs. I wonder how much is too much for them.