In todays news...

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Re: In todays news...

Post by Screwdriver »

Potter wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2023 9:20 am I have a question for those people who are terrified about teaching children that it's ok to accept transgender people.

It's been taught for as long as I can remember that it's ok to be gay, I'm sure some of you (that aren't dinosaurs) might have even come to the conclusion yourself, i.e. that it's ok to accept gay people as equal and everyday normal members of society...and I wonder...how many of you were turned from straight to gay because of this?

Remember Sophie Lancaster? People are now taught that it's ok to be goth, so how many of you were convinced to turn goth because of this?

Teaching kids that it's ok to accept transgender people into society will not turn them into transgender people.

I think some of you are so scared to teach people that it's ok to be anything other than heterosexual because you're internally terrified that you might not be one yourself and you'd prefer to keep that reality recessed into a very dark and faraway place in your minds.
It is because they are children. They do not know (or should not know!) what their sexual preferences are yet. We protect them until at least after the confusing period of puberty for that very reason. Children are malleable. They are a blank page which makes them extremely vulnerable to manipulation or indoctrination by those who have an unusual attraction to children. Vulnerable and easily persuaded. They need to be protected against such grooming. Sex should be a dry(!) scientific discussion gradually introducing the biology, the very real (!) differences between the sexes and not complicated with the ridiculous idea that you can choose whether you're a boy or a girl.

That is insanity.

The subject is invariably juxtaposed with the equally contentious and increasingly ridiculous proliferation of "gender" identities. Yes there are boyish girls and girlish boys and yes, they should be allowed to develop however they may choose. Not that it is any business of mine but I am quite happy with the idea of boys wearing a dress, playing with makeup or girls climbing trees being a mechanic or whatever "gender affirming" roles are currently accepted.

Buggered if I even know how boys and girls are "supposed" to behave in this modern era and god only knows how confusing it must be for children to "understand" this topic when it is still so vehemently argued among the so called grown ups. Best let them sort it out for themselves I say, it's not as if that rather obvious strategy hasn't worked for the entire duration of mankind.

But my biggest fear if you want to say I am "terrified" or "scared" of allowing or encouraging sexual deviants to "educate" children is that you already know damned well what a "transgender" adult or gay activist is going to tell them. Let's be honest here, the alphabet people, the LGBTQ+ brigade are already obsessed with sex/gender. That is all they seem to offer. I never hear positive stories about how their individual and personal choice has benefitted society, it's more about how if you CIS gender bigots don''t accept my personal sexual fantasy, I will destroy you.

They're not going to convince me a man can be a woman just because they says so. I am not a child.

The "fear" is of course that there is an element of the medical profession, looking for the next quick buck. Gender affirming care is big business. A lifetime of corrective surgery, drug induced hormone manipulations, a lifetime spent "proving" you made the right call even though all of the evidence proves otherwise. We already know, it cannot possibly ever work. Boys are still boys after they are castrated, girls are still girls after they are neutered the only difference being, after that decision has been made for them, before they discover their true sexual identity as adults, they will never be able to have children of their own. Never become the despised "normal" family unit of a man and a woman.

It is the surgical intervention and puberty blockers for children that I object to and therefore I also object to allowing sexual deviants access to children so that they can radicalise and manipulate them into their seedy sex obsessed world. After the age of consent, knock yourself out. Do what you like to your own body, behave as you like with the only slight caveat: you go your way, I'll go mine. They can't tell me how I have to think. I am not a child, I will make my own mind up. I think they are deluded.
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Re: In todays news...

Post by MyLittleStudPony »

I'm on holiday with six kids. They are all fine with trans folk; its the old men who aren't.
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Post by Ant »

Potter wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2023 9:39 am It has to be a bit pushy, otherwise you wouldn't accept it, I seem to remember reading that civil rights for black people was a bit of a struggle too.
Ok, now we know you're just taking the piss..... :lol:

But remember, blacking up was banned.....but being a parody of a woman is fine, just wait until we start parodying black people again, you'll be all good with that then :thumbup:
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MyLittleStudPony wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2023 10:47 am I'm on holiday with six kids. They are all fine with trans folk; its the old men who aren't.
And there's religious groups who were fine with FGM, whilst the old white men and women weren't.

So the age group who are being groomed are ok with it, whilst those who know it's wrong aren't, mmmmm.
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Re: In todays news...

Post by Screwdriver »

MyLittleStudPony wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2023 10:47 am I'm on holiday with six kids. They are all fine with trans folk; its the old men who aren't.
Yes I appreciate that. You can't teach an old dog new tricks.

But would you be happy leaving those six children in the care of a transsexual under the circumstances where that individual is responsible for teaching them? Specifically sex education. What sort of unbiased or let's say "scientifically valid" education would they be given?

A rather chilling development in the USA at least is that if a child expresses any interest in "gender identity" that conversation will be kept away from the parents. Their development is then in the hands of those with politically motivated interests. All a child has to do is say "I want to be a girl" to the wrong person and the knives will be out before the parents even know about it.

I wish I was being paranoid about it but there are multiple stories of such things happening in real life. You send you boy to school one day and it comes back a "they". Would you be fine with that?
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Post by Cousin Jack »

I am quite happy with transgender people, I have met and spoken with probably dozens and had a colleage who came out as transgender and started transforming.

Most of them were fairly unhappy and troubled people, changing gender didnt seem to change that much.

I am happy to accept them as people, but their underlying biology was determined before birth, and everything since then is just tinkering. Sports that depend on size/strength should be confined to people born to that gender.

If that seems unfair, so is life! At school I aspired to be a sprinter and a flank forward. I was reasonably good at both, but I needed to be 4-6" taller to compete at senior level, so my biology stopped me. Transgender people need to accept that too.
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Post by MyLittleStudPony »

I'd be very happy for a trans person to share their views and experiences on sex education with my kids, to the same degree I would a non trans person.i think it'd be really useful to be honest.

Do you think they're going to try and trans them up or predate on them because they are trans?
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Re: In todays news...

Post by Screwdriver »

MyLittleStudPony wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2023 11:15 am I'd be very happy for a trans person to share their views and experiences on sex education with my kids, to the same degree I would a non trans person.i think it'd be really useful to be honest.

Do you think they're going to try and trans them up or predate on them because they are trans?
No. That would require bigoted prejudice. People are just people and I would make an assessment based on that particular individual, as would you.

Statistically however, you're on a hiding to nothing. A <nonspecific> trangender or LGBTQ+ person, let alone activist, is MUCH more likely to have sexual prejudices of their own which do not align with societal norms.
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Potter wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2023 9:20 am Remember Sophie Lancaster? People are now taught that it's ok to be goth, so how many of you were convinced to turn goth because of this?
It's not that anyone is 'convinced' to be different - just maybe that they were already leaning that way and were dissuaded because the general public tend to pitchfork anyone slightly different in the face, lest they catch it like a disease. If you see more goths and they're not being marginalised and having their heads kicked in, then maybe you're more likely to be one. I was a goth as a yoof, sort of, but I was actively trying to be a w@nker. To their credit, late-1980s England was fairly accepting - probably they were still getting over the New Romantics.

When it comes to sexuality, you can flipflop between hetero and homo apparently and nobody is really that bothered these days (although a schoolfriend of mine hasn't been super-accepting of her husband's recent revelations) but proper TG transitioning is a bit tricky to reverse.

That's the only problem I have with it, surgically modifying yourself is a big deal, it's a whole new level of rebelling if that's why you're doing it. You would have thought the rebel-TG mob are a tiny minority of an already tiny TG minority though, so how the whole subject gets so many column inches ..?...
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Post by Cousin Jack »

Surgically and chemically changing yourself is also VERY expensive. I object to paying for it, if you want it pay for it privately.
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And TG is being targeted by perverts? So not only has the world decided (must sound familiar to homosexuals) that this is the realm of perversion, we're conveniently ignoring that perversion has a long history of domination by straight geezers in positions of authority. So, maybe get your own (sexual) house in order first, before you chin-music yourself to death worrying about a tsunami of TG pervs stealing your children's childhoods away.
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Re: In todays news...

Post by Greenman »

Potter wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2023 9:20 am I have a question for those people who are terrified about teaching children that it's ok to accept transgender people.

It's been taught for as long as I can remember that it's ok to be gay, I'm sure some of you (that aren't dinosaurs) might have even come to the conclusion yourself, i.e. that it's ok to accept gay people as equal and everyday normal members of society...and I wonder...how many of you were turned from straight to gay because of this?

Remember Sophie Lancaster? People are now taught that it's ok to be goth, so how many of you were convinced to turn goth because of this?

Teaching kids that it's ok to accept transgender people into society will not turn them into transgender people.

I think some of you are so scared to teach people that it's ok to be anything other than heterosexual because you're internally terrified that you might not be one yourself and you'd prefer to keep that reality recessed into a very dark and faraway place in your minds.
Are you coming out to us as Trans Iccy?

As with everything education is key.

I don't really like what transgender people do physically with sex changes etc, but people need to be tought about it as it is now part of our society, keeping the kids in the dark isn't going to do them any good when they meet someone transgender, if they have the knowledge about what a transgender person is, they won't be confused or freaked out.

Pushing children to consider what sex they are however is a bad move!
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Re: In todays news...

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mangocrazy wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2023 10:07 am I do enjoy these little lectures that Potter gives from time to time, telling us stuff we already knew but trying to make himself feel superior just for pointing out the obvious.
Seems like the chap was making a valid set of points to me. One may or may not agree with him but he's quite entitled to present a reasoned argument. (Would actually be nice if more people did!).

(I think there's a line to be drawn in education between 'education' and 'advocacy' so letting the likes of Stonewall or Mermaids anywhere near kids is my personal bête noir).
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So what if a 12 year old says, they'd like to be in an intimate relationship with a 45 year old? That'll be the next thing to come, will you be ok with that?

If not, why not?
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Greenman wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2023 12:01 pm
Potter wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2023 9:20 am I have a question for those people who are terrified about teaching children that it's ok to accept transgender people.

It's been taught for as long as I can remember that it's ok to be gay, I'm sure some of you (that aren't dinosaurs) might have even come to the conclusion yourself, i.e. that it's ok to accept gay people as equal and everyday normal members of society...and I wonder...how many of you were turned from straight to gay because of this?

Remember Sophie Lancaster? People are now taught that it's ok to be goth, so how many of you were convinced to turn goth because of this?

Teaching kids that it's ok to accept transgender people into society will not turn them into transgender people.

I think some of you are so scared to teach people that it's ok to be anything other than heterosexual because you're internally terrified that you might not be one yourself and you'd prefer to keep that reality recessed into a very dark and faraway place in your minds.
Are you coming out to us as Trans Iccy?

As with everything education is key.

I don't really like what transgender people do physically with sex changes etc, but people need to be tought about it as it is now part of our society, keeping the kids in the dark isn't going to do them any good when they meet someone transgender, if they have the knowledge about what a transgender person is, they won't be confused or freaked out.

Pushing children to consider what sex they are however is a bad move!
No one has really been kept in the dark over it, when you and I were children, we weren't petrified if ever we met someone trans - the issue here now today is that it's being promoted to an extreme level, kids are being sexually confused and extremist cult groups like Stonewall have been allowed into schools to do this.

Keep my kids away from this shit.
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Re: In todays news...

Post by Noggin »

mangocrazy wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2023 10:07 am I do enjoy these little lectures that Potter gives from time to time, telling us stuff we already knew but trying to make himself feel superior just for pointing out the obvious.
I liked his comment because a lot of comments here are properly phobic.

I do understand that permanent physical changes at a young age are unwise and almost certainly wrong - definitely something to be treated with caution and care. The 'extreme' possibilities are, I think, wrong. I believe that nothing permanent should happen to kids until they are old enough to be sure - or at the least classed as an adult.

BUT, there are a lot of comments about transgender adults that are also quite wrong.

There's a balance.

So, I didn't read the comment as trying to make himself feel superior. I thought it was a pretty level kind of comment.

But then, I guess my transgender friends and the youngster I know that is currently struggling to work out what they prefer to be are almost certainly reading and getting a lot of abuse and negativity. So I don't mind someone reminding us about the other people/groups that were vilified before.
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Noggin wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2023 12:24 pm
mangocrazy wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2023 10:07 am I do enjoy these little lectures that Potter gives from time to time, telling us stuff we already knew but trying to make himself feel superior just for pointing out the obvious.
I liked his comment because a lot of comments here are properly phobic.
Well yes, a phobia is indeed a fear. I think we're right to be fearful of grooming.

And yes, there is a balance - someone as an adult making the right decision for themselves is completely different to extreme groups such as Stonewall encouraging kids to go through with life changing mutilation which many have since regretted.
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Children should be taught facts, such as the fact that transgender means pretending to be the other sex.

You can go into the reasons people do it but that will always be less certain, as minds cannot be read.
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Re: In todays news...

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Count Steer wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2023 12:16 pm
mangocrazy wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2023 10:07 am I do enjoy these little lectures that Potter gives from time to time, telling us stuff we already knew but trying to make himself feel superior just for pointing out the obvious.
Seems like the chap was making a valid set of points to me. One may or may not agree with him but he's quite entitled to present a reasoned argument. (Would actually be nice if more people did!).

(I think there's a line to be drawn in education between 'education' and 'advocacy' so letting the likes of Stonewall or Mermaids anywhere near kids is my personal bête noir).
I have no issue with what Potter wrote; it seems perfectly reasonable and mirrors my views on gay/trans/goths. It was just that it was presented in a way that inferred that most of 'us' felt differently. I don't think that is the case.
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Re: In todays news...

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mangocrazy wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2023 12:55 pm I have no issue with what Potter wrote; it seems perfectly reasonable and mirrors my views on gay/trans/goths. It was just that it was presented in a way that inferred that most of 'us' felt differently.
I think most of us on here are a bit guilty of that, either on purpose or accidentally