Norton 2020 What really happened

[roadster]

The Guardian has just released podcasts telling the story of the most recent failed Norton venture ( 2020)
You can find them here
https://www.theguardian.com/news/series/todayinfocus

Look for "motorcycle scam"

[Ant]

They obviously didn't scan for viruses.

[Hot_Air]

Thanks @roadster. I've now found the direct link to Part 1:
https://www.theguardian.com/news/audio/ ... ne-podcast

[mangocrazy]

There's something deeply rotten at the heart of the UK's Legal and Judicial systems when serial con-men like Garner get off effectively scot-free and his victims lose their life savings with no recourse to reparation.

[ZRX61]

That's really fucking annoying to listen to with all the background mumbling etc.

[Noggin]

Yup. Even small (to this report) amounts totally screw up people's lives: someone can shut down a company and walk away from the debts, then set up a different company but still not be held accountable for those debts.

Cost me over 20k. Still paying for that so the cost will only go up.

I know it's not as bad as losing pensions for thousands of people, but it does rather fuck up people's lives when the unscrupulous can't be brought to justice

[ZRX61]

Yup. Even small (to this report) amounts totally screw up people's lives: someone can shut down a company and walk away from the debts, then set up a different company but still not be held accountable for those debts.

Cost me over 20k. Still paying for that so the cost will only go up.

I know it's not as bad as losing pensions for thousands of people, but it does rather fuck up people's lives when the unscrupulous can't be brought to justice

Orange County Choppers did that. Transferred all the bike business assets to their steel company, declared bankruptcy, transferred the assets back to the *new* bike company... And the fuckers did it at least three times.

[mangocrazy]

There's something deeply rotten at the heart of the UK's Legal and Judicial systems when serial con-men like Garner get off effectively scot-free and his victims lose their life savings with no recourse to reparation.

Totally agree, but it's worse than that, the people behind him that supported it all won't even get a mention.
Garner obviously didn't orchestrate everything himself, he would have had accountants, assistants and legal people that drafted everything and then a system that allowed him to do it. He's just the bloke that signed the papers, I doubt all the money (or even any of the money) is sitting in a secret account, it was distributed to all the scum in the corporate world that were part of it.

Corporate accounting is often inventive fraud, the whole system stinks, I've often been in conflict for trying to go back to a traditional system of thinking of money as a physical thing rather than numbers to move around in a game of smoke and mirrors.

The podcast made that point quite strongly. Garner surrounded himself with people of like mind. The pension fund was administered by a pair of guys with form for swindling people, they employed similar types to go round and cold-call unsuspecting investors and basically lie to them to get them to transfer their pot into the pension fund. So there was an 'inner circle' (of which Garner was the lynch pin) of thieves, con-men and swindlers and then there was the extended circle of basically honest people who were acting as enablers but who surely must have realised that the whole thing stank to high heaven.

It's been mentioned before, but the few people who actually got their bikes were also fucked over. When they took their bikes in for service or to get warranty claims fixed, Garner and co would cannibalise custiomer's bikes to build 'new' bikes that could be sold to other customers. Now anyone involved in that kind of scam would have to know that what they were doing was totally illegal and fraudulent.

[Cousin Jack]

The problem with all this financial juggling (and there is a LOT of it going on that never makes the news) is that the only people who can prosecute the criminals is the police, and
A lot of it is actually legal, near the edge but not actually illegal.
Most policemen have no fucking idea what it as all about.
Even if they did, they are burried in other stuff.
Even if they were given extra resources, it is incredibly time-consuming trying to track down who knew what, and when.
And when all that is done, the CPS will take one look and decide it is too much work/too difficult, or doesn't have the required 90% chanc of getting a conviction.

[Count Steer]

The problem with all this financial juggling (and there is a LOT of it going on that never makes the news) is that the only people who can prosecute the criminals is the police, and
A lot of it is actually legal, near the edge but not actually illegal.
Most policemen have no fucking idea what it as all about.
Even if they did, they are burried in other stuff.
Even if they were given extra resources, it is incredibly time-consuming trying to track down who knew what, and when.
And when all that is done, the CPS will take one look and decide it is too much work/too difficult, or doesn't have the required 90% chanc of getting a conviction.

No mention of the FCA? I can think of a lot more appropriate things that that stands for and none of them are Financial, Conduct or Authority.

[Cousin Jack]

What has the FCA ever done? What is it even supposed to do?

[slowhare]

There's something deeply rotten at the heart of the UK's Legal and Judicial systems when serial con-men like Garner get off effectively scot-free and his victims lose their life savings with no recourse to reparation.

…. and not just the UK system

[wheelnut]

There are UK laws against phoenix companies. I think it’s the Insolvency service that would take action based on the reports of the administrators/liquidators.

How often that actually happens though …..

[westers151]

There's something deeply rotten at the heart of the UK's Legal and Judicial systems when serial con-men like Garner get off effectively scot-free and his victims lose their life savings with no recourse to reparation.

…. and not just the UK system

Why is it not 38,000 families?