Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

[Couchy]

What I glean from that is, unsurprisingly, they're more popular where there's more money.

The last bit is exactly right, mansfield is a poor ex mining town where the average car is well under £5k and bought cash.
...
So those that can afford it are raking them up what’s the answer for those that can’t ?

Even if they could charge at home, if it needs installation of a charger (£1k?), that's going to influence options and choices.

But it's not that clear-cut as a 'rich area' Vs 'poor'. In the affluent areas, living costs are higher in those areas (look at housing costs as one example). Much of the housing is flats, so similarly low opportunities for charging.

Basically cost of running a car is going to increase simple as that. Fast forward 100 years and these times if cheap personal transport will have been a blip, the majority will be back in cities with no need for their own transport. So go buy a V8 now and enjoy it while you can you owe it to the future generations who won’t be able to

[Mr. Dazzle]

Speaking of cheap leccy cars for the masses, the Rolls-Royce Spectre is now on sale.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/ro ... ce/spectre



AFAIK the original Silver Ghost was so called because it was so quiet, R-R have retained that naming trend across multiple years and vehicles now. So if ever there was a brand suited to electric drive....

[weeksy]

The last bit is exactly right, mansfield is a poor ex mining town where the average car is well under £5k and bought cash.
...
So those that can afford it are raking them up what’s the answer for those that can’t ?

Even if they could charge at home, if it needs installation of a charger (£1k?), that's going to influence options and choices.

But it's not that clear-cut as a 'rich area' Vs 'poor'. In the affluent areas, living costs are higher in those areas (look at housing costs as one example). Much of the housing is flats, so similarly low opportunities for charging.

Basically cost of running a car is going to increase simple as that. Fast forward 100 years and these times if cheap personal transport will have been a blip, the majority will be back in cities with no need for their own transport. So go buy a V8 now and enjoy it while you can you owe it to the future generations who won’t be able to

Will they care in 100 years ? with the development of completely different transport and even matter diffusion type Star Trek jobbies... maybe 20 years there'll be a problem, but 100... i can't see it making a difference as transportation is likely to be so different then

[Mr. Dazzle]

You can also look at it from the other direction.

Did people have cars 100 years ago? Or Deliveroo? Did they have jobs?

Who knows, might even bring back the High Street, walkable cities and jumpers for goalposts.

[Count Steer]

Yeah, but are you seeing them because they're a novelty? I see hundreds/thousands of cars on a drive back from Sheffield to Stafford, and I always 'notice' a Tesla when I (infrequently) see one as they stick out like a sore thumb.

Well, I've been playing 'yellow car' with EVs ever since Couchy said he doesn't see many in and around Mansfield. Most days I'd estimate they're between 5 and 10% of the vehicles I see (excluding commercials). (20-30% are SUVs). Lots of Teslas, Hyundais, Minis etc. (+ a few Twizys ).

What I glean from that is, unsurprisingly, they're more popular where there's more money.

The last bit is exactly right, mansfield is a poor ex mining town where the average car is well under £5k and bought cash.
I do see people saying you can buy an EV for that, assuming these people did it will be rubbish with a range barely 50 miles. Sounds ok but a lot of these have no off street parking so they’ll be charging at the public charge points and in a lot of cases paying more per mile than diesel. As these people are priced off the road it’ll come back and hit all of us as they also do the lowest paid essential jobs that keep the country going.
So those that can afford it are raking them up what’s the answer for those that can’t ?

I know Mansfield very well. It's not all poor. I imagine there are clusters of EVs, possibly in places like Berry Hill and further afield like Ravenshead, but overall it's not survived the loss of all the main industries very well (hosiery, shoes, stuff like Metal Box etc not just mining - it all seems to be service industries/warehouse jobs). The old pit villages have suffered even more.

I imagine though that as more manufacturers dedicate more production to non-ICE the competition will increase and prices will drop. At the moment it's all early adopter/premium pricing and very iffy on cost benefits on the total cost of ownership. It will probably look very different in 20 to 30 years time but it's a bit like turning an oil tanker.

[Couchy]

Well, I've been playing 'yellow car' with EVs ever since Couchy said he doesn't see many in and around Mansfield. Most days I'd estimate they're between 5 and 10% of the vehicles I see (excluding commercials). (20-30% are SUVs). Lots of Teslas, Hyundais, Minis etc. (+ a few Twizys ).

What I glean from that is, unsurprisingly, they're more popular where there's more money.

The last bit is exactly right, mansfield is a poor ex mining town where the average car is well under £5k and bought cash.
I do see people saying you can buy an EV for that, assuming these people did it will be rubbish with a range barely 50 miles. Sounds ok but a lot of these have no off street parking so they’ll be charging at the public charge points and in a lot of cases paying more per mile than diesel. As these people are priced off the road it’ll come back and hit all of us as they also do the lowest paid essential jobs that keep the country going.
So those that can afford it are raking them up what’s the answer for those that can’t ?

I know Mansfield very well. It's not all poor. I imagine there are clusters of EVs, possibly in places like Berry Hill and further afield like Ravenshead, but overall it's not survived the loss of all the main industries very well (hosiery, shoes, stuff like Metal Box etc not just mining - it all seems to be service industries/warehouse jobs). The old pit villages have suffered even more.

I imagine though that as more manufacturers dedicate more production to non-ICE the competition will increase and prices will drop. At the moment it's all early adopter/premium pricing and very iffy on cost benefits on the total cost of ownership. It will probably look very different in 20 to 30 years time but it's a bit like turning an oil tanker.

Yes there's a few more here in Berry Hill but even then not many. I think tbh folk here think electric is wizardry and are scared more than not being able to afford it

[Mr. Dazzle]

This came up on my LinkedIn today...Turbocharged electric powertrains Wonder if you can still get it to go "Pffffttt!". S'not even a joke, this works with fuel cell tech to force more air in and speed up the hydrogen reaction which generates electricity.

https://www.dieselprogress.com/news/new ... 02.article

[Mr. Dazzle]

If lawmakers ans OEMs don't get their arses in gear EVs are probably gonna spike in price again next year anyway.

Current plan is for all cars made in the UK and sold in the EU to have more than a certain percent of their value come from within the EU or UK, or get hit with tariffs (works the othet way too AIUI). It's intended to prevent China becoming the sole supplier of certain key hardware (pretty much!).

Comes into force 2024, but so far the OEMs are behind schedule and the law is ploughing on.

[Count Steer]

Current plan is for all cars made in the UK and sold in the EU to have more than a certain percent of their value come from within the EU or UK, or get hit with tariffs. It's intended to prevent China becoming the sole supplier of certain key hardware (pretty much!).

Comes into force 2024, but so far the OEMs are behind schedule and the law is ploughing on.

Interesting that the UK is included in that.

Is that within individual cars? It looks a bit like protectionism as it's obvs easier/cheaper to do it if your cars are manufactured in the EU/UK. Might put a crimp on Japanese/Chinese/Korean imports?

[Horse]

And in today's news, re EU:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-66117178

China's largest car manufacturer SAIC Motor says it will build its first factory in Europe, after sales of its vehicles on the continent jumped.

The state-controlled company - which owns the iconic MG brand - says the new plant will produce electric vehicles.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Interesting that the UK is included in that.

Is that within individual cars? It looks a bit like protectionism as it's obvs easier/cheaper to do it if your cars are manufactured in the EU/UK. Might put a crimp on Japanese/Chinese/Korean imports?

AFAIK it only applies to cars built here, so a 100% Japanese car would be considered differently.

The UK is explicitly mentioned to stop us undercutting Europe of course. If the EU says European cars must be X% European they can hardly have the UK not following that rule, swerving the cost of setting up Western (not Chinese ) manufacture, and still maintaining tariff free car trade. Why would they do that?

However in a wish to not be entirely unreasonable the EU have also agreed that stuff made in the UK can still be considered "made in Europe".

And in today's news, re EU:

EU policy seems to be having the desired effect then!

[Count Steer]

I assume the rule already applies to cars built in the EU? (They could hardly demand it of the UK if not).

Cars are strange anyway...wasn't there some story about a Volvo having more parts in it that were made in the UK than some cars actually built in the UK?

[Mr. Dazzle]

The rule comes into force next year AFAIK, but 'they' all want to push it back. AIUI it's based on value too, rather than "amount" and a battery is a massive chunk of an EVs value - 'tis also the part which is most often made in the far east. This is why you're seeing so many stories of manufacturers building battery plants and opening Lithium mines!

[ZRX61]

I wonder what the cost per car of the Lordstown clusterfuck was.... $Millions invested & they produced 19 cars before it all went tits up.

[Horse]

I wonder what the cost per car of the Lordstown clusterfuck was.... $Millions invested & they produced 19 cars before it all went tits up.

Never heard of it.

Google finds:
https://investor.lordstownmotors.com/ne ... ng-process
Jun 27, 2023

LORDSTOWN, Ohio, June 27, 2023 /PRNewswire/ -- Lordstown Motors Corp. (Nasdaq: RIDE), ("Lordstown" or the "Company"), an original equipment manufacturer (OEM) of electric light-duty vehicles focused on the commercial fleet market, today announced a strategic restructuring process to maximize the value of its assets: its on-the-road Endurance all-electric (EV) pickup truck and the intellectual property, platform and people that developed it.

As part of the process, Lordstown today filed litigation against global technology company Hon Hai Technology Group (TWSE: 2317; LSE:HHPD) and certain of its affiliates, including Foxconn Ventures Pte. Ltd. (collectively, "Foxconn"), in the United States Bankruptcy Court for the District of Delaware (the "Bankruptcy Court"). The litigation details Foxconn's fraud and willful and consistent failure to live up to its commercial and financial commitments to the Company. Foxconn's actions led to material damage to the Company as well as its future prospects.

In addition, and as a consequence of Foxconn's material and irreparable harm, Lordstown is commencing a comprehensive marketing and sale process for the Endurance vehicle and related assets. To accomplish this expeditiously and provide a prospective buyer with a going concern asset that is free and clear of any legacy issues, Lordstown is restructuring under Chapter 11 of the U.S. Bankruptcy Code ("Chapter 11") in the Bankruptcy Court. Lordstown further anticipates that the restructuring will enable an expedited timeline for hearing Lordstown's litigation against Foxconn.

Edward Hightower, CEO & President of Lordstown, said, "As one of the early entrants to the EV industry, we have delivered the Endurance, an innovative and highly-capable EV with significant commercial and retail potential – and had subsequently engaged with Foxconn in a purposeful, strategic partnership to leverage this expertise into a broader EV development platform. Despite our best efforts and earnest commitment to the partnership, Foxconn willfully and repeatedly failed to execute on the agreed-upon strategy, leaving us with Chapter 11 as the only viable option to maximize the value of Lordstown's assets for the benefit of our stakeholders. We will vigorously pursue our litigation claims against Foxconn accordingly."
The complaint filed against Foxconn centers on a transformative, strategic partnership Lordstown's management team entered into with Foxconn to combine Lordstown's innovation, technology, accomplished vehicle engineering team and manufacturing facility in Lordstown, Ohio with Foxconn's resources, supply chain capabilities and position as one of the world's largest electronics manufacturers with stated significant automotive capabilities to form a new, scalable joint vehicle development platform.

Under the partnership, Lordstown agreed to divest its most valuable assets to Foxconn, namely its Lordstown, Ohio manufacturing facility, which is one of the largest in North America, along with its highly talented and experienced manufacturing and operational employees. The up-front purchase price for the Lordstown manufacturing facility reflected the expected benefits of the contractual assurances from Foxconn that Foxconn would support the Endurance pickup truck in a variety of ways and follow through on a joint vehicle development program, leveraging what was purported to be Foxconn's established and extensive EV ecosystem and meeting its commitments to the Lordstown community.

The lawsuit details the fact that Foxconn had no intention of living up to its commitments, particularly with respect to the new vehicle development platform. As the lawsuit describes, Foxconn simply used its variety of contractual arrangements with the Company as a tool to maliciously and in bad faith destroy Lordstown's business—while leveraging resources gained through the partnership to advance its own business interests.

And more.

[ZRX61]

Turns out they built 40 vehicles, they were all recalled.

[ZRX61]

Was just reading a Jalopnik link about the worse selling cars in the US this year.. Not sure how many EV Hummers GM are building, but sales are one every three days...

[Mr. Dazzle]

Not at all surprised, anyone with a small enough penis to buy a hummer would feel even more inadequate without a big noisy engine.

Plus Arnie. Bet he's got a leccy one

[demographic]

111 pages of people protesting too much, methinks.

[ZRX61]

Not at all surprised, anyone with a small enough penis to buy a hummer would feel even more inadequate without a big noisy engine.

Plus Arnie. Bet he's got a leccy one

GM must be losing their ass on them. Hard to justify a production line when they've only sold about 60 cars all year. Ford sell over 1300 F Series every day...