Trail braking, or braking in corners.

[KungFooBob]

I've always done it. No one ever told me not too. It's as natural to me as... riding a bike.

I don't get what all the fuss is about.

[slowhare]

How does rear braking load the front? The guy on the YT thread argued it unloaded the front but stabilised the rear suspension. When i read about trail braking from other sources it doesn’t mention applying the front brake which clearly would load the front. This is really confusing now. I understood rear braking = trail braking.

Yes, braking to the apex is what i was taught along with following it out as it either opens or tightens as you progress.

What concerned me was this was taught to new riders but i see from your comments Horse this isn’t the case, at least in the UK.

So to cut to the chase: is it something you would advocate using on the road?

[Yorick]

How does rear braking load the front? The guy on the YT thread argued it unloaded the front but stabilised the rear suspension. When i read about trail braking from other sources it doesn’t mention applying the front brake which clearly would load the front. This is really confusing now. I understood rear braking = trail braking.

Yes, braking to the apex is what i was taught along with following it out as it either opens or tightens as you progress.

What concerned me was this was taught to new riders but i see from your comments Horse this isn’t the case, at least in the UK.

So to cut to the chase: is it something you would advocate using on the road?

On track 95% of the braking is with the front.

[Horse]

How does rear braking load the front?

Because the back is joined to the front

Braking, whether it's closing the throttle or a full-on e-stop, alters weight distribution towards the front.

The guy on the YT thread argued it ... stabilised the rear suspension.

No idea what that means. Perhaps one of the regular users of the technique can consider and explain.

Could you post a YT link?

[slowhare]

Right.
Only done a limited number of trackdays but admit i rarely use the rear on the road in any case, although i’ve heard a dual 80/20 is most effective for stopping quickly and less front more rear if it’s wet.

I’m a bit more confused now as my own experience has taught me that when applying the front it tends to make the bike stand up in corners, which widens the curve & could lead to overshooting. I’d never imagined trail braking involved the front brake only.

[Horse]

On track 95% of the braking is with the front.

And on bikes with linked brakes, the rider's decisions may be influenced by the manufacturer.

[slowhare]

Braking, whether it's closing the throttle or a full-on e-stop, alters weight distribution towards the front

And estop uses both brakes, i thought. Applying the rear only makes the bike sit back, at least that’s what i experience.


Stabilising the suspension: i imagined this to apply in the same way it’s used when making very slow speed manoeuvres, like the cone test or very tight turns.

I’m little embarrassed to show that YT thread now tbh, as it appears i know nothing about trail braking! I thought it involved rear only but that isn’t correct.

[Horse]

my own experience has taught me that when applying the front it tends to make the bike stand up in corners, which widens the curve & could lead to overshooting. I’d never imagined trail braking involved the front brake only.

Trail braking is just 'braking', so could be front, rear, or both.

Re standing up mid-bend, my understanding of trail braking is that it's continuing braking (started on the approach), then easing off in the bend. Again, I'm very happy for for one of the regular users to expand.

Of course, there are occasions when trail braking is necessary, for example on a downhill sequence where the bike's barely upright between the bends.

[slowhare]

Trail braking is just 'braking', so could be front, rear, or both.

Re standing up mid-bend, my understanding of trail braking is that it's continuing braking (started on the approach), then easing off in the bend. Again, I'm very happy for for one of the regular users to expand.

I thought it was a rear only technique, and that it was used continuously, through the corner.

[slowhare]

If ppl had said it’s late braking to the apex, i’d have got that, instantly, as it’s something everyone does occasionally.

[KungFooBob]

It's braking all the way to the point that you re-apply the power, innit?

[slowhare]

After the apex, sure… but that’s not what i figured trail braking was all about. I thought it was continued application of the rear through the apex while keeping the throttle engaged.

[KungFooBob]

I always assumed 'trail' braking was done with the front.

Apparently a dab of the rear on entry can help settle the bike, but I've never done it deliberately, however I have had bikes with linked brakes that do feel a bit more 'stable' on the brakes tipping in.

[Mr. Dazzle]

It's braking all the way to the point that you re-apply the power, innit?

10 points for the first person to say "traction circle".

[slowhare]

I always assumed 'trail' braking was done with the front.

Well there you go. I’d assumed the ‘trail’ bit implicitly applied to the rear only, as you’re trailing it around the corner. It would never cross my mind to use the front through a corner, applying throttle at the same time, but i could imagine a technique where one could argue using the rear gave an advantage. But i seem to be confused as to what trail braking actually is.


Yes, i think the OP YT was talking about settling the bike when talking suspension.

[KungFooBob]

<Pony/Boss>
As long as you show them a wheel then finesse the clutch and gan' it up on back wheel you'll be right.
</>

[Mr. Dazzle]

<Pony/Boss>
As long as you show them a wheel then finesse the clutch and gan' it up on back wheel you'll be right.
</>

Never you mind about any of that trail braking or apex bollox, just have 'em on the brakes

[Horse]

Braking, whether it's closing the throttle or a full-on e-stop, alters weight distribution towards the front

And estop uses both brakes, i thought. Applying the rear only makes the bike sit back, at least that’s what i experience.

Two points:

1. Suspension movement; this is most obvious on bikes with simple shaft drive (ie without something like BMW's Paralever). Under acceleration the shaft tries to 'climb' against the rear wheel, pushing the back of the bike up. Under braking, the rear will squat down. I understand that a chain drive bike wil do the same, but to a much lesser degree.

[A mate used to annoy his wife by sitting at traffic lights, gently easing the clutch in and out. The back of the 'Wing would rhythmically lift and fall ]

2. Stoppies; these demonstrate one extreme of weight distribution change - 100% front. You wouldn't feel the bike sitting back there [Wheelie being 100% rear]

Bike 'physics' isn't my area, so - again - happy for anyone else to take over.

[Horse]

I thought it was continued application of the rear ... while keeping the throttle engaged.

Balancing throttle, clutch and rear brake is useful for slow control

And driving throttle against rear brake can be considered for manoeuvres like tight roundabouts.

[Horse]

it also dips the forks and keeps them down later, increasing the rake angle so it steers quicker.

Although ... presumably the extra weight over the front squidges the front tyre, making it harder to steer? And steer harder against the 'outward' force that Slowhare mentioned?