In todays news...

[Count Steer]

The highest base rates I've known were 17% in 1979, when I was still renting. In 1982 I took the plunge and bought a house with interest rates fluctuating between 10% and 15% for most of the 80s. I ran up considerable debts just to stay afloat during that period and it was only during the early-mid 90s that I was able to pay off my debts and become solvent again. The idea of asking for government assistance was so bizarre it never even occurred to me.

My sympathy for those that assumed low interest rates were here for ever is limited, having had non-fixed mortgages the last 2 times the housing market has stood on it's head. The last time and the current situation are a bit different from the 70s though. The 90s was when they'd lend anything to anyone and stoked up the 'house price boom' and sure enough, it went boom. Then and now, thanks to hugely inflated house prices, the mortgage is a bigger % outgoing, on average, for buyers. Lots of people have little room for budgeting manoeuvres if payments rise significantly. Back in the 70s we (personally) just went 'Ooh, that stings' tightened our belts and either got a better job or waited for wage increases to dull the pain. There was some slack in the monthly finances because the mortgage wasn't such a huge % of income - they wouldn't lend more than x times salaries, but x has increased since.

It's still one thing to hope that low interest rates are permanent but make whatever provision you can, just in case, another to assume they are permanent and live/spend accordingly.

It's going to be interesting to see how the mood music changes from 'no government/taxpayer money to assist those in mortgage distress' to 'the government must do something' when people see the value of their houses heading south though.

[DefTrap]

I don't see this as super-different to most of the other emergency benefits that the government provides to dig certain demographics out of a hole. What's the alternative? Mass repossession? We all know buy-to-let is being discouraged (knock-on-effect fewer houses to let and sharper rents). And good luck getting on the Council.

[Mr. Dazzle]

it's all a bit circular though right....put up interest rates (yeah I know that's the BoE) to reduce people's spending power, then use tax payer money to cover higher mortgage payments. So...err...what was the point of the interest rate hike again?

[Noggin]

Looks like the Submariners are dead now. If it's under water and they find it right now, the recovery time is longer than the air supply will last.

It’s gut wrenching.
There is a father and son in there, I imagine myself sitting in that tube with my boy, watching each other die

It's been horrible to read and wait. So being in there must be horrendous.


I'm a bit incredulous that there was no security at all (rescue recovery type security). But that really doesn't take away from the fact that those people have had to sit in that submersible and watch each other die - probably knowing full well that that is what was going to happen.

Gut wrenching is the right description

[Taipan]

Looks like the Submariners are dead now. If it's under water and they find it right now, the recovery time is longer than the air supply will last.

It’s gut wrenching.
There is a father and son in there, I imagine myself sitting in that tube with my boy, watching each other die

Dreadful. Somone here said dying of air starvation is actually euphoric, so maybe they'll pass better than I had imagined they would, hopefully...

An interesting point made by a guy on the news now, he said they may have been allowed to take their phones down to take photos and maybe if the vessel is ever recovered, they'll possibly be vidoes that fill in the blanks. But, as he said, it took 73 years to find the very large Titanic...

[KungFooBob]

I read that if the electrical system was dead that the carbon dioxide would start to replace the oxygen and they would just fall asleep.

[Ant]

Looks like the Submariners are dead now. If it's under water and they find it right now, the recovery time is longer than the air supply will last.

It’s gut wrenching.
There is a father and son in there, I imagine myself sitting in that tube with my boy, watching each other die

Yes it's heart breaking. Sadly many are finding this hilarious, posting jokes about it on forums and social media. Sick, utterly sick and quite likely illegal too.

[cheb]

CO2 poisoning symptoms: https://www.emedicinehealth.com/wildern ... ymptom.htm

Doesn't sound that peaceful.

And spare a thought for the people searching and who have to open the sub when/if found.

[Yambo]

I'm afraid I can't get too worked up about it tbh. These people paid a lot of money to visit a mass grave basically and I can't understand why they'd want to do that. Were you as upset about the submariners on the Kursk, or people who pay a lot of money to climb Everest, walk past the bodies of other adventures and maybe die themselves?

[Mr. Dazzle]

I'm afraid I can't get too worked up about it tbh. These people paid a lot of money to visit a mass grave basically and I can't understand why they'd want to do that. Were you as upset about the submariners on the Kursk, or people who pay a lot of money to climb Everest, walk past the bodies of other adventures and maybe die themselves?

S'kinda my feeling to TBH.

People do these things to "feel alive" and all that sort of stuff. Flip side of the coin really innit? Can't have it both ways.

[Noggin]

I'm afraid I can't get too worked up about it tbh. These people paid a lot of money to visit a mass grave basically and I can't understand why they'd want to do that. Were you as upset about the submariners on the Kursk, or people who pay a lot of money to climb Everest, walk past the bodies of other adventures and maybe die themselves?

I can feel both (I especially despair at the Tourists on Everest)

But I suppose most of my feelings are for the kid. He went because his Dad did (probably). Did he have the emotional maturity to consider the grave site? Did he really want to go? But then, the Dad is now (was) in a position of knowing that because he made it happen, his son won't go home.

I can't say I'm worked up, but I am really sad about a lot to do with the situation, incredulous that anyone would get in something like that without confirming the back up for a problem and also a little shocked that people will pay that much money to basically 'rubberneck' a mass grave


This story doesn't bring out one emotion for me

[Taipan]

So you're not bothered a Dad will probably watch his son die or vice versa. That's a dreadful thing for any family to go through, especially the remaining family knowing that. Its a dreadful thing that any of them should have to see another human die in front of them. So yes I have sympathy.

Whether its ghoulish or not to go down and see a ship where over 1500 souls lie is another matter, but then its been romanticised by Hollywood etc, so its always going to have an attraction.

[Mr. Dazzle]

I wouldn't wish it upon anyone, but it happens every day, all the time. As Iccy (quite correctly) is so fond of reminding us, 100s of children will die today because they don't have enough to eat. I'm don't have it in me to get too worked up about some adventurers who foolishly put themselves in harms way on purpose.

[weeksy]

I guess it answers their question of "i wonder what it was like to die in this way"... maybe not the best way of answering it, but their must be an Alanis Morisette song lyric in there somewhere ?

[Yambo]

So you're not bothered a Dad will probably watch his son die or vice versa. That's a dreadful thing for any family to go through, especially the remaining family knowing that. Its a dreadful thing that any of them should have to see another human die in front of them. So yes I have sympathy.

Do you think that the Dad was concerned about that as he passed the pen to his son to sign the bits of paper?

Yes, I agree with you that it's a dreadful thing to see another person die in front of them. My wife literally died in my arms, took her last breath as I held her. There were quite a few looking on as well but we didn't put her in that position, pancreatic cancer did.

[Taipan]

So you're not bothered a Dad will probably watch his son die or vice versa. That's a dreadful thing for any family to go through, especially the remaining family knowing that. Its a dreadful thing that any of them should have to see another human die in front of them. So yes I have sympathy.

Do you think that the Dad was concerned about that as he passed the pen to his son to sign the bits of paper?

Yes, I agree with you that it's a dreadful thing to see another person die in front of them. My wife literally died in my arms, took her last breath as I held her. There were quite a few looking on as well but we didn't put her in that position, pancreatic cancer did.

No. I expect he thought he giving his son a unique experience and view of the world's most famous maritime disaster that few other people would ever see. A lot of wealthy people got to be that way by taking risks all their lives. I doubt a disaster ever occurred to him, even for a second...

[MrLongbeard]

also a little shocked that people will pay that much money to basically 'rubberneck' a mass grave

Whether its ghoulish or not to go down and see a ship where over 1500 souls lie is another matter,

No different to going and looking at any war grave sites or concentration camps in Europe, go and look, pay your respects, have a moment of thought and contemplation, that this costs more than a return ticket on a ferry and carries a load more risk doesn't make it wrong or distasteful.

[Ant]

Anyway...

Little—less—nothing!—and that ended it.
No more to build on there. And they, since they
Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs.

The BoE have hit 5%, that's going to sting in the morning.

Yep, when my mortgage goes to a tracker, that'll cost me a few hundred more a month. So I can leave things as they are by not doing over payments for the time being.

[Yorick]

Whether its ghoulish or not to go down and see a ship where over 1500 souls lie is another matter, but then its been romanticised by Hollywood etc, so its always going to have an attraction.

I've been here and wasn't ghoulish. Very peaceful actually.

UID_85_USS_Arizona_Memorial.jpg (163.9 KiB) Viewed 167 times

.

[Yambo]

At least 30 migrants feared dead in Canary Islands disaster

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-65983001

Still not known how many perished on the Greek fishing boat a few days ago with, reportedly, 100 children in the hold . . .