First Ride: Pinion's E-Drive System - A New Motor With an Integrated Gearbox
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First Ride: Pinion's E-Drive System - A New Motor With an Integrated Gearbox
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/first-rid ... ystem.html
Pinion, known for their gearbox drivetrains, is taking things to another level with an e-bike motor with integrated gearbox, opening the doors to a powertrain option that may well change the way we think about e-bike transmissions.
Under the name of MGU (Motor.Gearbox.Unit), Pinion unifies motor and gearbox in a single unit that simply should cater better to the needs of an e-bike, as well as the higher stresses it can put on components. Apart from the fact that you have the option to get rid of that pesky rear derailleur. With all e-bike necessary components that surround their MGU, Pinion is talking about their Pinion E-Drive System.
Historically, German company Pinion is not exactly the first to combine an e-bike motor with an integrated gearbox – two years ago, I rode around the Eurobike parking lot with a prototype of Valeo's Cyclee e-bike motor with an integrated gearbox that they developed together with Effigear. Since then however, and even though the system should be available by now, their entry into the mountain bike world has been eerily quiet. Nevertheless, seeing the Pinion E-Drive System close to production already with some established brands having built the first models around the system for their 2024 lineup is quite the big deal.
Motor.Gearbox.Unit
Pinion has started their development with a wear-free brushless electric motor for industrial applications made in Germany as a base and has optimized it by the use of more powerful magnets with a redesigned fit for e-bikes. Delivering a comparable drive torque of approximately 85Nm, the goal was to far exceed the strain and wear of cycling applications. Using the word comparable, because the power output of the Pinion MGU can't be exactly translated to regular systems when utilizing an internal gearbox.
A better value for comparison would be wheel torque – the power that actually reaches the wheel. For example, gears 1 to 4 of the Pinion MGU provide an under-drive and deliver up to 160Nm of torque. Therefore, talking about a ‘comparable drive torque' of approximately 85Nm serves only to put the MGU’s power output into context as an approximation for comparison’s sake.
A whole host of patented internal sensors continuously read the input torque, motor speed, the position of the shifting shaft and crank arms as well as the rider’s cadence, speed, and a bunch of other factors to ensure the most natural riding feel. The multi-sensor design notices even the tiniest inputs and smallest changes within the system while the special architecture of the micro controller further helps in increasing the efficiency of the system while simultaneously reducing the amount of heat generated during operation
The rest, you can read yourselves.
Pinion, known for their gearbox drivetrains, is taking things to another level with an e-bike motor with integrated gearbox, opening the doors to a powertrain option that may well change the way we think about e-bike transmissions.
Under the name of MGU (Motor.Gearbox.Unit), Pinion unifies motor and gearbox in a single unit that simply should cater better to the needs of an e-bike, as well as the higher stresses it can put on components. Apart from the fact that you have the option to get rid of that pesky rear derailleur. With all e-bike necessary components that surround their MGU, Pinion is talking about their Pinion E-Drive System.
Historically, German company Pinion is not exactly the first to combine an e-bike motor with an integrated gearbox – two years ago, I rode around the Eurobike parking lot with a prototype of Valeo's Cyclee e-bike motor with an integrated gearbox that they developed together with Effigear. Since then however, and even though the system should be available by now, their entry into the mountain bike world has been eerily quiet. Nevertheless, seeing the Pinion E-Drive System close to production already with some established brands having built the first models around the system for their 2024 lineup is quite the big deal.
Motor.Gearbox.Unit
Pinion has started their development with a wear-free brushless electric motor for industrial applications made in Germany as a base and has optimized it by the use of more powerful magnets with a redesigned fit for e-bikes. Delivering a comparable drive torque of approximately 85Nm, the goal was to far exceed the strain and wear of cycling applications. Using the word comparable, because the power output of the Pinion MGU can't be exactly translated to regular systems when utilizing an internal gearbox.
A better value for comparison would be wheel torque – the power that actually reaches the wheel. For example, gears 1 to 4 of the Pinion MGU provide an under-drive and deliver up to 160Nm of torque. Therefore, talking about a ‘comparable drive torque' of approximately 85Nm serves only to put the MGU’s power output into context as an approximation for comparison’s sake.
A whole host of patented internal sensors continuously read the input torque, motor speed, the position of the shifting shaft and crank arms as well as the rider’s cadence, speed, and a bunch of other factors to ensure the most natural riding feel. The multi-sensor design notices even the tiniest inputs and smallest changes within the system while the special architecture of the micro controller further helps in increasing the efficiency of the system while simultaneously reducing the amount of heat generated during operation
The rest, you can read yourselves.
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Re: First Ride: Pinion's E-Drive System - A New Motor With an Integrated Gearbox
I think it's how an E-Bike should be made, get rid of the derailleurs and have a proper gearbox, but cyclists won't like it, they're even more conservative than motorcyclists.
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Re: First Ride: Pinion's E-Drive System - A New Motor With an Integrated Gearbox
Saw this yesterday, definitely the way forward. Yes it's weightier than a conventional motor derailleur setup but the battery takes care of that, looks like the mapping/assist needs tweaking but that will come.
Also unless you really keep on top of chain wear on a normal emtb you'll be replacing the cassette at the same time, mine was only just worn but with a new chain its still a bit skippy under heavy load in the smallest cog.
+ less gubbins hanging out the back waiting for a rock to smash it off.
Thumbs up from me.
Mate had a Zerode with a pinion and he loved that. He only got rid of it as he had to go E for a medical condition which meant he couldn't pedal a normal bike for very long.
Also unless you really keep on top of chain wear on a normal emtb you'll be replacing the cassette at the same time, mine was only just worn but with a new chain its still a bit skippy under heavy load in the smallest cog.
+ less gubbins hanging out the back waiting for a rock to smash it off.
Thumbs up from me.
Mate had a Zerode with a pinion and he loved that. He only got rid of it as he had to go E for a medical condition which meant he couldn't pedal a normal bike for very long.
Last edited by MingtheMerciless on Wed Jun 21, 2023 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: First Ride: Pinion's E-Drive System - A New Motor With an Integrated Gearbox
I disagree, i think they'll love it. Less wear, less components to smash off. I can't see a single downside to it assuming it's done right.Le_Fromage_Grande wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2023 10:37 am I think it's how an E-Bike should be made, get rid of the derailleurs and have a proper gearbox, but cyclists won't like it, they're even more conservative than motorcyclists.
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Re: First Ride: Pinion's E-Drive System - A New Motor With an Integrated Gearbox
Hopefully you're right and it will become the norm for e-bikes, I also can't see any downsides, maybe price?weeksy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2023 10:44 amI disagree, i think they'll love it. Less wear, less components to smash off. I can't see a single downside to it assuming it's done right.Le_Fromage_Grande wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2023 10:37 am I think it's how an E-Bike should be made, get rid of the derailleurs and have a proper gearbox, but cyclists won't like it, they're even more conservative than motorcyclists.
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Re: First Ride: Pinion's E-Drive System - A New Motor With an Integrated Gearbox
Doesn't seem insane based upon the article...Eebs are expensive as we know.. but these ones seem a bit spendy, but still within the realms of normality.
I'd like to see them swappable for quick replacement in event of a failure, just a nice simple 3-4 bolts, in then out, done.
I'd like to see them swappable for quick replacement in event of a failure, just a nice simple 3-4 bolts, in then out, done.
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Re: First Ride: Pinion's E-Drive System - A New Motor With an Integrated Gearbox
I'm glad to see they are doing a chain drive version, @porter_jamie and I had been discussing the Pinion MGU for the last few days and the only version we'd seen had been belt drive, which made us nervous.
If they could make it fit onto Bosch motor mounts that would be fantastic, so it could be fitted as an upgrade when a Bosch bike had a motor death, but I suspect not given what they are cramming inside the motor. So that means it's probably going to remain the premise of boutique bike manufacturers for a while, until the big boys get confidence in its reliability*.
*no manufacturer wants to be looking at themselves experiencing what Specialized went through with the Brose motors....
If they could make it fit onto Bosch motor mounts that would be fantastic, so it could be fitted as an upgrade when a Bosch bike had a motor death, but I suspect not given what they are cramming inside the motor. So that means it's probably going to remain the premise of boutique bike manufacturers for a while, until the big boys get confidence in its reliability*.
*no manufacturer wants to be looking at themselves experiencing what Specialized went through with the Brose motors....
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Re: First Ride: Pinion's E-Drive System - A New Motor With an Integrated Gearbox
Whys that ? I quite fancied the idea of the belt as something a little different... it also looks 'cleaner' than the chain to me.millemille wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2023 4:47 pm I'm glad to see they are doing a chain drive version, @porter_jamie and I had been discussing the Pinion MGU for the last few days and the only version we'd seen had been belt drive, which made us nervous.
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Re: First Ride: Pinion's E-Drive System - A New Motor With an Integrated Gearbox
Belts don't like stones, OK so the risk is reduced by the narrowness of this one, but they can shred
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Re: First Ride: Pinion's E-Drive System - A New Motor With an Integrated Gearbox
Belts are Ok but not bodge-able. Mate has an Olsen steel SS with belt drive and it's usually very good. However he has had a stone derail the belt and if you don't slacken off the tension before you remount the belt (which is a pain to do) the belt snaps as you try to get it back on the pulleys, guess how he found this out. He has also snapped a belt when it got attacked by a flint.weeksy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 22, 2023 8:39 amWhys that ? I quite fancied the idea of the belt as something a little different... it also looks 'cleaner' than the chain to me.millemille wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2023 4:47 pm I'm glad to see they are doing a chain drive version, @porter_jamie and I had been discussing the Pinion MGU for the last few days and the only version we'd seen had been belt drive, which made us nervous.
I'd go for a heavier duty SS chain if I was speccing one.
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Re: First Ride: Pinion's E-Drive System - A New Motor With an Integrated Gearbox
What happens when a belt snaps in the middle of nowhere?
Even if you're carrying a spare belt it still means you've got take the rear triangle/swingarm/suspension to bits to fit it....
And as has already been said, belts have a propensity for failing if something small and solid gets trapped between belt and pulley.
Even if you're carrying a spare belt it still means you've got take the rear triangle/swingarm/suspension to bits to fit it....
And as has already been said, belts have a propensity for failing if something small and solid gets trapped between belt and pulley.
Re: First Ride: Pinion's E-Drive System - A New Motor With an Integrated Gearbox
That Rotwild in the Pinkbike article looks bloody good, I'd be seriously tempted to buy one depending on the price.
If the motor/gearbox setup isn't crazy money and is reliable it could be a massive hammer blow to the likes of Bosch and Shimano when it comes to e-bikes. Like someone said above, if it's got the same mountings as Bosch or Shimano systems it could be a great replacement when your original motor shits itself.
If the motor/gearbox setup isn't crazy money and is reliable it could be a massive hammer blow to the likes of Bosch and Shimano when it comes to e-bikes. Like someone said above, if it's got the same mountings as Bosch or Shimano systems it could be a great replacement when your original motor shits itself.
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Re: First Ride: Pinion's E-Drive System - A New Motor With an Integrated Gearbox
'Delivering a comparable drive torque of approximately 85Nm, the goal was to far exceed the strain and wear of cycling applications. Using the word comparable, because the power output of the Pinion MGU can't be exactly translated to regular systems when utilizing an internal gearbox.
A better value for comparison would be wheel torque – the power that actually reaches the wheel.'
Sounds familiar. Dynos in bike shops next eh?
A better value for comparison would be wheel torque – the power that actually reaches the wheel.'
Sounds familiar. Dynos in bike shops next eh?
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But certainty is an absurd one.
Voltaire