Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

[wheelnut]

When I had my own Ltd company I bought my first GSXR1000.
And bought very nice Dainese leathers and Arai etc.
All went through the books and reclaimed all the VAT.
Did loads of trackdays so all tyres etc also went through the books.
When I shut the company I bought it for myself for a nominal fee and put the depreciation through the books

Had a good accountant

Trouble is, that ‘nominal fee’ has to be fairly realistic and that will be reintroduced as profit with the vat to be added.

If you don’t do it at a realistic market value, and HMRC notices, they will take offence.

(I’ve done 5 through the business so far, and it’s all good till you step off the merry go round).

[Mr. Dazzle]

My set up is pretty simple...they just lease the car to me for loads less. Financially it's set like any other lease, they merely choose to sell/lease me the car at a much lower price because they can. Does kinda make you realise the margins on the car in isolation There's no BiK implications or anything like that cause I'm buying it "with my own money" so to speak.

There's a list of 20-30 cars I can get, generally it's stuff which is selling less well. They spec em up to the nines, then sell em to the employees for a bit before buying them back for used stock. Keeps the production lines supplying and generates a steady stream of well specced used cars.

Does explain why I've got a diesel saloon, nobody wants those Hence my surprise that there are EVs coming through now.

[Mussels]

My set up is pretty simple...they just lease the car to me for loads less. Financially it's set like any other lease, they merely choose to sell/lease me the car at a much lower price because they can. Does kinda make you realise the margins on the car in isolation There's no BiK implications or anything like that cause I'm buying it "with my own money" so to speak.

There's a list of 20-30 cars I can get, generally it's stuff which is selling less well. They spec em up to the nines, then sell em to the employees for a bit before buying them back for used stock. Keeps the production lines supplying and generates a steady stream of well specced used cars.

Does explain why I've got a diesel saloon, nobody wants those Hence my surprise that there are EVs coming through now.

I thought you were on the EV salary sacrifice scheme, unless your wages are much lower than I'm guessing it would work out better financially for you. Or do you get to claim tax back on the lease as you are using it for work?

[Mr. Dazzle]

Both/Either.

Can get any brand of EV through salary sacrifice with all the tax stuff.

Can get vehicles direct from the mothership, not EVs until now, which are essentially just a massive discount on a private purchase. They've just cut the list price loads effectively, which they're free to do. No law against selling cars at cost/loss!

Payroll don't even see it, all comes from my current account. The loan appears on my credit record too.

Edit: for illustration...when I got my current car I had a look around to see how much it'd be to lease the same thing "normally". My total amount payable in the period I'll have it is about 1/3 of the cost to lease the same vehicle on the same terms privately. Salary sacrifice isn't going to top that!

[ZRX61]

U.S. auto safety regulators are investigating nearly 40,000 Hyundai Ioniq 5 electric vehicles over reports of power loss while driving tied to a battery charging issue.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos- ... 023-06-19/

[weeksy]

Name's a bit unoriginal innit? It's like a Tesla knock off.

Bloody cagers.

deserved more recognition.

[Count Steer]

The Beeb are reporting that JLR have picked the UK for their new battery plant, yay!

There was an item on the radio yesterday about Port Talbot steelworks (owned by Tata, who own JLR). It appears the proposal to build the battery plant is, in some way, tied in with getting a few £billion in government support to modernise the steelworks. It's all a bit 'watch this space' at the moment as steel doesn't appear to be a strategic industry for the UK any more.

[Couchy]

Friend has the new Porsche Taycan with the sound generator, yup it makes an engine noise to the outside world lol. Nice car and quick but still does nothing for me. Fake engine note aside it's the same noise as a Nissan leaf. Lease plus electric still works out more expensive than running a diesel and you still have the EV downsides. We see a lot of care dealers whilst installing charge points and most are saying the market for selling to private buyers is dead. Lease companies and low BIK are all that's keeping the market going and as soon as the tax benefits change it'll kill that too. It's still rare to see an EV up here, maybe see 2 or 3 a week.

[Pirahna]

We see a lot of care dealers whilst installing charge points and most are saying the market for selling to private buyers is dead. Lease companies and low BIK are all that's keeping the market going and as soon as the tax benefits change it'll kill that too. It's still rare to see an EV up here, maybe see 2 or 3 a week.

That'll start to change, after 2030 if you want a new fossile fueled vehicle it'll be a lorry.

[Mr. Dazzle]

See them all the time here, it does seem to vary massively.

As it 'appens, when I was at the Distinguished Gentleman's Ride a few weeks back the subject of EVs was being discussed. I said "I bet there's more than one EV in the carpark here" in the context of a discussion about how rare they are....and I was right! There were 2 I walk past at least 4 (2 of which are parked on street, not plugged in) on the 1 mile trek to baby D's school.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Any car nerds remember the prototype/demonstrator/concept Mercedes C111? Mercedes do!

Yeah OK there's a lot of concept car nonsense here, but it does have some substance behind it. New battery tech and new motor tech, crucially from "real companies" rather than just vapour ware.

The silicon battery tech is particularly interesting. On paper, silicon can be used to increase battery power density by a factor of 10 (compared to the graphite used in nearly every Lithium battery today). Of course, that factor of 10 is just the "nominally possible", but the 40% improvement they talk about is a real value by the sounds of it.

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electr ... eborn-c111

[Taipan]

Any car nerds remember the prototype/demonstrator/concept Mercedes C111? Mercedes do!

Yeah OK there's a lot of concept car nonsense here, but it does have some substance behind it. New battery tech and new motor tech, crucially from "real companies" rather than just vapour ware.

The silicon battery tech is particularly interesting. On paper, silicon can be used to increase battery power density by a factor of 10 (compared to the graphite used in nearly every Lithium battery today). Of course, that factor of 10 is just the "nominally possible", but the 40% improvement they talk about is a real value by the sounds of it.

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electr ... eborn-c111

Its a Matra Bagheera!!

[Mr. Dazzle]

Its a Matra Bagheera!!

The original C111 (which is the one which looks like the Matra) did something daft like 250mph it the late 70s Mercedes just fucking around to see what's possible.

EDIT: Yeah, 250mph in 1979! Even more impressive is the run where they averaged nearly 15mpg....at 195mph!

[ZRX61]

Friend has the new Porsche Taycan with the sound generator, yup it makes an engine noise to the outside world lol. Nice car and quick but still does nothing for me. Fake engine note aside it's the same noise as a Nissan leaf. Lease plus electric still works out more expensive than running a diesel and you still have the EV downsides. We see a lot of care dealers whilst installing charge points and most are saying the market for selling to private buyers is dead. Lease companies and low BIK are all that's keeping the market going and as soon as the tax benefits change it'll kill that too. It's still rare to see an EV up here, maybe see 2 or 3 a week.

On Fords it's called FENG: Fake Engine Noise Generator. Mustangs have it, as do Explorer ST's. I can't speak to Mustangs, but on the ST it's to disguise the injector rattle. The volume of it depends on if it's in normal, sport or eco mode. I find it annoying, but I guess it's preferable to listening to the injectors rattle like loose tappets. ST is still in the shop for a new trans etc for at least another week, the loaner VW Atlas is very quiet inside without VW-FENG... but the VW would struggle to pull the skin off rice pudding. It's a gutless fucking slug, the ST has spoiled me.

[Mr. Dazzle]

S'a legal requirement (on the outside) in leccy cars now, so you can hear 'em coming. Cuts out (or at least, isn't legally required any more) at something like 15kph because at that speed the tyres are noisier anyway.

I'm a bit fuzzy on when and how it's introduced. AFAIK it's anything post 2019 in Europe, but think that's only cars which were homologated post 2019, 'cause brand new Teslas don't make the noise. Brand new Mercs, Porches and Audis etc. do though.

[Slenver]

brand new Teslas don't make the noise.

They do, or at least some do. I had this same discussion with a friend just the other day as his new Model Y does it, but his previous 3 didn't. We were trying to work out when it became mandatory.

Edit: Just checked gov site and they have this to say:

From 1 July 2019, all manufacturers must install a system in new types of quiet electric and hybrid electric vehicles. Sound generators will produce a specified level of noise when they are reversing or running below 20 km/h (about 12mph). The sound generated will be similar to that made by a conventional engine and can be temporarily deactivated by the driver if judged necessary.

Model Y started builds in Jan 2020, so that all stacks up. Though clearly the 'sound generated will be similar to that made by a conventional engine' is flexible as the Y sounds like a spaceship. Also it can't be deactivated, at least as far as my mate can find, but it could be buried deep in some menu

[Cousin Jack]

That'll start to change, after 2030 if you want a new fossile fueled vehicle it'll be a lorry.

Or a new 'people's champion' will challenge for government, and will win by a landslide.

[Cousin Jack]

My hybrid Lexus will make vroom vroom noises if I ask it to. Only inside, using the radio.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Model Y started builds in Jan 2020, so that all stacks up. Though clearly the 'sound generated will be similar to that made by a conventional engine' is flexible as the Y sounds like a spaceship. Also it can't be deactivated, at least as far as my mate can find, but it could be buried deep in some menu

Not heard the Tesla version, but I think it's quite clever how the noise is "modulated". It rises in pitch and intensity as the cars speeds up, there's a difference between "gunning it" and just "creeping" even at the same speed. Couldnt' tell you what that difference actually is, but you instinctively know what it means. Must have been an interesting exercise for the people who created it.

[Slenver]

Not heard the Tesla version, but I think it's quite clever how the noise is "modulated". It rises in pitch and intensity as the cars speeds up, there's a difference between "gunning it" and just "creeping" even at the same speed. Couldnt' tell you what that difference actually is, but you instinctively know what it means. Must have been an interesting exercise for the people who created it.

Didn't notice that as the times I heard it he was just manoeuvring/parking etc.

It's a really eerie, sci-fi noise though. Very 'woo-oooo!', if you can picture that.