In todays news...

[ZRX61]

Biden ended a speech to union members yesterday with "God save the Queen"

When asked about this latest clusterfuck, the WH said he "was talking to someone in the crowd"

I misquoted him about his ambitious railway plans. He actually said the plan was to build a railway "from the Pacific across the Indian Ocean"

[westers151]

Biden ended a speech to union members yesterday with "God save the Queen"

When asked about this latest clusterfuck, the WH said he "was talking to someone in the crowd"

I misquoted him about his ambitious railway plans. He actually said the plan was to build a railway "from the Pacific across the Indian Ocean"

JB proving the point that parties in power get ousted because of their own failings, not because the other party was better.

[ZRX61]

You should have realized by now that the only real problem with Trump is that he wasn't anyone's puppet...

[Mr. Dazzle]

Sure he was, it's just the strings are connected lower down

[Ant]

Trump was a special puppet. He was a puppet to the population, he did the best for the people, the people are the string pullers of said puppet.....

When the Biden administration considered replenishing american oil reserves at $80 per barrel, remember when they blocked trump from doing it at $24 a barrel.....

[gremlin]

Do you drive a tram, claim all the salary that goes with it, but drive like a twat and crash it, killing seven people, and it's kinda 'vay-knights'...

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-65949347

Health and Safety at Work Act, 1974? Where was manslaughter?

[Ant]

Do you drive a tram, claim all the salary that goes with it, but drive like a twat and crash it, killing seven people, and it's kinda 'vay-knights'...

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-65949347

Health and Safety at Work Act, 1974? Where was manslaughter?

They can get away with what they like now. The other train driver sacked for being drunk was reinstated after the union kicked off, what kind of message does that send?

I'm still surprised about the Hawker Hunter pilot who also was cleared after killing people by pulling a stupid move - the result was not only loss of life, but air shows are very curtailed since.

[wheelnut]

You should have realized by now that the only real problem with Trump is that he wasn't anyone's puppet...

Yep, he does have his own sizeable collection of puppets though.

[Potter]

Do you drive a tram, claim all the salary that goes with it, but drive like a twat and crash it, killing seven people, and it's kinda 'vay-knights'...

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-65949347

Health and Safety at Work Act, 1974? Where was manslaughter?

That does seem like a strange verdict, drive at three times the limit, tip your passenger vehicle and kill seven people and walk out without a blemish.
I expect the union will have him back to work soon as well.

An unrelated anecdote, a mate from school became a train driver, I hadn't seen him for years and then bumped into him at a reunion where I didn't recognise him because he was so fat, he proceeded to get blind drunk and had to be helped home, he was an alcoholic. He was a good lad in all other respects and subsequently I'd occasionally meet up with him after his shift, he was always full to the gills with booze. He remained in full employment as a train driver throughout his alcoholic years and eventually died (whilst still employed) from being an alcoholic. Everyone knew and he undoubtedly drove his trains whilst heavily under the influence.

The only other person I've seen to be so heavily boozed up at work was a prison guard, who was also an alcoholic and it was accepted, he would stagger around on the wings.

[irie]

Do you drive a tram, claim all the salary that goes with it, but drive like a twat and crash it, killing seven people, and it's kinda 'vay-knights'...

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-65949347

Health and Safety at Work Act, 1974? Where was manslaughter?

Exactly.

The jury heard Mr Dorris was driving the tram at over 70km/h (43mph) - more than three times the limit - as he approached the curve near Sandilands.

Next time I'm driving at more than three times the speed limit I'll quote this case. Or maybe not.

[millemille]

Maybe read the RAIB report before flapping your gums?

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... s_v2.2.pdf

[Count Steer]

Maybe read the RAIB report before flapping your gums?

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... s_v2.2.pdf

That doesn't make comfortable reading for the tram operators or the system designers.

[KungFooBob]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-u ... a-65953941

The thought of it happening to me makes me feel ill.

Not that it would, I'd never entertain doing anything like it.

[JackyJoll]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-u ... a-65953941

The thought of it happening to me makes me feel ill.

Not that it would, I'd never entertain doing anything like it.

If you were in that sub, you’d be worse than ill.

I wish them the best of luck, but…

[Potter]

Maybe read the RAIB report before flapping your gums?

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... s_v2.2.pdf

I did read it, a quick skim read just now confirms what I remember, there was nothing to make me change my mind, the cause of the crash was the driver going too fast and not braking.

Not sure if I missed an important punchline somewhere but like all these types of reports there were arse covering points about the company not taking every single potential step to ensure that it is impossible for a dim-witted person who is half asleep to operate the train without crashing it - but ultimately if the driver had done his job properly and not been half asleep, then it wouldn't have crashed.

[Mr. Dazzle]

I'm a bit 50/50 on this one! There are clearly systemic AND personal failures here.

It is a valid question, "how do you make sure dim-witted half asleep people don't drive Trams". Sounds obvious, but it does need answering.

But on the other hand, in my mind one big answer here is "fire the guy who killed people by being dim-witted and half asleep". It's not the whole solution but it's part of it! All the other drivers might be more motivated to be fully-witted.

[Potter]

I'm a bit 50/50 on this one! There are clearly systemic AND personal failures here.

It is a valid question, "how do you make sure dim-witted half asleep people don't drive Trams". Sounds obvious, but it does need answering.

But on the other hand, in my mind one big answer here is "fire the guy who killed people by being dim-witted and half asleep". It's not the whole solution but it's part of it! All the other drivers might be more motivated to be fully-witted.

It's a personal grievance I have about society being dumbed down, I remember a QHSE bloke explaining to a group of directors that all activities should be idiot proof, they all nodded solemnly, then I upset him by suggesting that we should stop employing idiots.

I'm not saying we stop looking for ways to make things safer by design, that's a good idea, but that doesn't absolve idiots from making idiot choices and causing an accident and then saying it's not their fault because it wasn't idiot proof.

[Yambo]

From reading the news report and the RAIB report (not all of it but I cherry picked what I thought would be relevant) I get the feeling that the driver was prosecuted under H & S law to provide him with a defence.

Why wasn't he prosecuted for causing death by dangerous tram driving (it maybe there isn't the facility to do so) or why wasn't he prosecuted for manslaughter? I suspect (well I get the feeling) that if he had been prosecuted for something like that,he'd have pleaded guilty. It's a failing of the CPS if you want him strung up.

Whilst it was the first tram to leave the tracks at that point, it was not the first incident of a driver going into the bend too fast and having an issue. That should tell you something.

It also highlights, for a lot of people, that the jury were all completely inappropriate people for such a job.

[mangocrazy]

When you get loss of life on a scale such as this tram crash, wouldn't it be wise to look at some kind of automation that overrides driver control and forces a reduction in speed? In £40k passenger cars there are all manner of electronic intervention devices; lane assist, enforcement of speed limits, etc. etc. Would it not be too much to ask that similar devices are fitted to £million pieces of rolling stock? Had there been an automated override that sensed speed for that section of track was too high and intervened forcibly this might never have happened.

It also stikes me that a little diamond 20mph sign actually on the bend (not before) is a case of too little, too late. Road signs indicating speed limits are significantly larger.

Sandilands.JPG (73.71 KiB) Viewed 222 times

[Yorick]

I thought trains had a dead man's handle?
That would kick in if driver fell asleep.