How to make progress in a car

[Mr. Dazzle]

I used to like making progress in slow cars, judging the overtake so I got the run up just right and was carrying enough speed at the moment I had both reached the car in front and there was room to overtake, and going round corners with one wheel in the air.
In a fast car with modern driver aids it's just a bit boring really, overtakes and corners take little effort. The most exciting bit is wondering when they next wheel smashing pothole will appear.

My favourite at the moment is seeing how many people I can pass on the busy dual carriagway with the engine switched off. If you come of the pedal it drops into neutral and kills the motor.

Sorta like a cross between tetris and pac man.

[wheelnut]

Like others I’m a little confused by the question.

FWIW, I tend to be a little less ‘positive’ when I’m in the car. I still look for opportunities to ‘make progress’ (I hate that phrase) but they tend to more passive than active. I’ll just look for ways to keep moving rather than actively planning more positive actions. Just a little more laid back. Same time, space and early planning principles apply though.

[MyLittleStudPony]

It sounds like fun. Have them on the brakes.

[Pirahna]

When overtaking don't forget to check that nothing is overtaking you, like the bloke in the worlds best car that thought the best time to overtake me was when a Police car was overtaking him. The be fair to the bloke in the Range Rover, the Police car was only using blue lights and not sirens, although I'd seen it over half a mile away.

[Mussels]

When overtaking don't forget to check that nothing is overtaking you, like the bloke in the worlds best car that thought the best time to overtake me was when a Police car was overtaking him. The be fair to the bloke in the Range Rover, the Police car was only using blue lights and not sirens, although I'd seen it over half a mile away.

Or that the car in front is not about to overtake something else, I enjoyed rounding a blind corner to find a motorbike, car and a push bike all alongside each other headed towards me.

[Bigyin]

If you are really bored get a hold of Roadcraft as its the basis for plod advanced driving or PM Nordboy who is a plod advanced instructor

Tbh, having done the advanced driving course its pretty much all about reading the road, vanishing point, limits of view, situational awareness and making sure the car is balanced and in a responsive gear to each situation you need. I've used it in marked vehicles in my dim and distant past and more so in unmarked without blue lights and sirens which is a lot more challenging

Its easier on a bike as the bike is smaller, fits in smaller gaps and has a (in most cases) vastly greater power to weight ration and acceleration than most cars ...... the downside is the consequences for fucking it up on a bike will normally be higher

[Trinity765]

If you are really bored get a hold of Roadcraft as its the basis for plod advanced driving or PM Nordboy who is a plod advanced instructor

Tbh, having done the advanced driving course its pretty much all about reading the road, vanishing point, limits of view, situational awareness and making sure the car is balanced and in a responsive gear to each situation you need. I've used it in marked vehicles in my dim and distant past and more so in unmarked without blue lights and sirens which is a lot more challenging

Its easier on a bike as the bike is smaller, fits in smaller gaps and has a (in most cases) vastly greater power to weight ration and acceleration than most cars ...... the downside is the consequences for fucking it up on a bike will normally be higher

I may buy him a copy

[Trinity765]

P.S.

Never heard of the 3 stage overtake but its what I do anyway by the sounds of it. This is another one of those weirdy beardy codifying the obvious things innit?

There's a 2 stage overtake - the sort you would do on an open, straight road - a smooth arc.

I was following a bunch of Caterhams once and I'm sure they were doing 4 stage overtakes. Zip! Zip! Zip! Zip! It was like being behind Scalextrics cars.

[Horse]

He could watch the 'Reg Local' videos on YouTube.


One thing that has been suggested as a biking 'must' is trail braking. There's a thread here somewhere (my interpretation: a deliberate, planned, action, not to be confused with braking in bends as a necessity or 'comfort' braking).

And it can be done in a car too.

But: he should be aware of implications for the car's handling and how weight balance is affected. I have now reached the point of ignorance If being done for 'performance', probably best learned in a controlled environment - otherwise the other 'off road' could occur

The 'ideal' method I was taught for cars is similar to that for bikes, where speed/gear/balance are all sorted before the bend.

For cars, the difference is in the way steering and power are applied. First (with enough power to keep the car front-rear balanced), a very small initial steering input. Then increase drive and apply more steering as needed.

What you're aiming to achieve is the 'seat of the pants' feel of being pushed back in the seat, rather than feeling 'sideways' cornering force.

To get that requires being on the drive to get balance slightly rearward - and that likely requires slowing earlier and more than you're used to.

I'm told it's detailed in:
Don Palmer "Creative Car Control Handbook"
Available from some retailers.

[Horse]

This is another one of those weirdy beardy codifying the obvious things innit?

Yes.

Speaking as a beardy well renowned for this sort of claptrap, I can assure you that it is totally to bamboozle the uninitiated

There might be a slight underlying reason for such invented terms.

As T says, there are essentially two types of overtaking manoeuvre:
1. You're travelling substantially faster than the other vehicle. You pull out, pass it. No speed change required.
2. You have to follow at the same speed, then pass when there is an opportunity. Acceleration required.

'1' is known as a 'momentum' overtake
'2' is the occasion for the 'three stage'

Being awkward, I call them either 'S' (1) or 'Z' (2) to describe your path of travel through the approach. Use your imagination

Also, for '2', I have used a series of prompts, to be applied through the three stages: Gear-Clear?-Go
1. Preparation, select a responsive gear
2. Move out, check before committing to passing
3. If ok, accelerate

FWIW, someone made up a spreadsheet and worked out that, for a momentum overtake, you have to commit earlier.

Edit: just remembered, there's the 'elastic band' technique too. Typically either low-power vehicle, or when you know a potential passing point has limited space. This is where you are following, but start to accelerate before pulling out to check it's really a good idea to pass. Obvious implications if it's not ok to pass and you're accelerating towards the vehicle ahead ...

[Yambo]

The 'ideal' method I was taught for cars is similar to that for bikes, where speed/gear/balance are all sorted before the bend.

This of course, is simply good technique. Braking in a bend could be considered poor technique, Arguably there's no right or wrong, just good or poor technique but when you consider basic physics* good technique is always going to be the better option.

There are of course different techniques for cornering in front and rear wheel drive vehicles*. Motorcycles are invariably rear wheel drive and the great majority of affordable cars are front wheel drive.

*Newton's 1st Law of Motion applies in both cases. Brakes to slow, gears to go is not one of Newton's Laws but is good technique.

Having said all that, driving is driving whether you're on a motorcycle, in a car, an articulated vehicle with a 40 ft trailer or some sort of specialist vehicle. You control your speed and direction with basically only 6 options (there are more possibilities if you want). Other drivers around you also only have same 6 basic options making it easier to anticipate their possible actions. Good observation is key and good long range observation is key to 'making progress' (if you've ever stopped for a red traffic light which changes to green just as your wheels stop turning your long range observation is shit).

We're all taught "mirror, signal, manoeuvre" but if you are just about to overtake and you look in your mirror and see a vehicle overtaking you, "mirror, signal, manoeuvre" has let you down. There's a better method if you want to make progress.

There's lots more things that can help you to make progress but you won't necessarily find them in a book, even RoadCraft.

[Horse]

1. Move closer to the car in front if you anticipate that there may be an overtake opportunity

'Closer' being what? How do you decide and what sort of time / distance interval?

It's dangerous if you can't see their indicators. If there is a rule for that one I don't know??

Reason for asking is that police training used to have a 'following' position (2 seconds) and, if there's the possibility of an overtake, move up to 'close follow' (about 1 second). But there's very obvious issues with being that close but having your attention away from the car ahead. You might be able to 'see' the indicators (line of sight) but still have to react to them - and that's if the driver actually uses them.

So, if you're looking at reducing your following distance by one second, is it really necessary? How desperate are you that one second will make a difference to an overtake being on or not?

[Slenver]

1. Move closer to the car in front if you anticipate that there may be an overtake opportunity

Depends what car you have. My first car was a Mini, and the recognised technique for overtaking was to fall back about 100 yards before a known overtaking spot and then use the 20 second gap to build up enough speed to actually get past.

[Yambo]

1. Move closer to the car in front if you anticipate that there may be an overtake opportunity

Depends what car you have. My first car was a Mini, and the recognised technique for overtaking was to fall back about 100 yards before a known overtaking spot and then use the 20 second gap to build up enough speed to actually get past.

Why were you following so close in the first place?

[dern]

The opportunities to make progress in a car are few and far between due to all the cars... follow the one in front and enjoy the scenery if you're touring.

[Horse]

The opportunities to make progress in a car are few and far between due to all the cars... follow the one in front and enjoy the scenery if you're touring.

Hang back ... hang back ... hang back .... until another car closes from behind. Then you'll have the road ahead clearer for playtime.

[Slenver]

Why were you following so close in the first place?

I wouldn't consider any distance less than 100 yards to be 'so close'.

[Supermofo]

The opportunities to make progress in a car are few and far between due to all the cars... follow the one in front and enjoy the scenery if you're touring.

Yeah that. I'm not into cars and not driven many fast ones. In my brother's 520bhp Jag and 450bhp Audi they are very fast and corner quickly BUT you spend most of the time stuck behind a Nissa Micra doing 45mph as there's is no room to get passed. I reckon down a country road I'd be quicker in the car until the first other car. A bike can be passed traffic so much easier.

[Horse]

The opportunities to make progress in a car are few and far between due to all the cars... follow the one in front and enjoy the scenery if you're touring.

Yeah that. I'm not into cars and not driven many fast ones. In my brother's 520bhp Jag

A bike can be passed traffic so much easier.

I was taking my BMW R65 in for servicing to a chap who lives at Hook Norton. Heading up from Oxford. Lovely road, now riddled with double-white lines and 50 limits.

Riding fairly briskly, within my limits and the bike's (bendy frame Be-eM, etc. and 50 or so bhp).

A car following was matching me for overtakes. A Jag.

As I turned off onto lanes, he continued on. Registration: TWR1.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Walkinshaw
TWR also ran a Jaguar XJ-S ETCC touring car programme before taking on their World Sportscar Championship programme. In six years the programme won Le Mans twice and the World Championships three times.

I probably wouldn't have stood a chance if he'd been trying