Screwdriver wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 11:45 am
So you're saying it's the same while also showing the differences. Boris became PM as the result of a general election, Sunak did not.
You then say that if the circumstances had been the same, they would be the same. Somewhat tautological so I can't argue with that except to say that Sunak was in fact not elected by the general populace and therefore is not our Prime Minister by the consent of the people.
Every PM is there by consent of the people. None of 'us' gets to vote for the PM. The current leader of a party may affect how people vote and so appear that we are voting for a PM, but we vote for the local MP.
Once the 'party' is voted in, they can choose whichever MP they like to be Prime Minister. Doesn't matter about the voters because, as others have said, We do not vote for a Prime Minister. We vote for a party or a local MP
Didn't this happen with Gordon Brown? Wasn't he voted to PM by the Labour party after Blair resigned? It's no different.
WE as the general public have no say in who is the PM. We can vote against a party because we don't like the head of that party and so don't want that person to be PM. But we have no final say about who will be that PM
Life is for living. Buy the shoes. Eat the cake. Ride the bikes. Just, ride the bikes!!
Lolz, whining about the 'false' process for the majority party choosing the prime minister. It happens the same way every time - so just how is it fixed differently with Sunak, than it was with Truss, Johnson, May, Cameron. ?
Yambo wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 12:18 pm
Boris Johnson became Prime Minister on 23 July 2019 having beaten Jeremy Hunt in the Conservative Party leadership election following Teresa May's resignation.
Rishi Sunak became Prime Minister on 22 October 2022 having been unopposed in the Conservative Party leadership election following Liz Truss's resignation.
Both Johnson and Sunak became Prime Minister by virtue of being elected Leader of the Conservative Party which was in government at the time. Both were elected as Leader of the Conservative Party by Members of the Conservative Party.
We're not on Snopes here, you can't simply ignore the truth because it does not suit your narrative.
Boris was the Prime Minister in the 2019 General Election. He led the Tory party to a landslide victory.
Richy Sunak (sic.) got second dibs on an internal decision on who to install as PM. He did not (and will not) win a General Election for the WEF sorry I mean Tory party.
That's all I am saying. End of story.
“No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth.”
Plato
Yambo wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 12:18 pm
Boris Johnson became Prime Minister on 23 July 2019 having beaten Jeremy Hunt in the Conservative Party leadership election following Teresa May's resignation.
Rishi Sunak became Prime Minister on 22 October 2022 having been unopposed in the Conservative Party leadership election following Liz Truss's resignation.
Both Johnson and Sunak became Prime Minister by virtue of being elected Leader of the Conservative Party which was in government at the time. Both were elected as Leader of the Conservative Party by Members of the Conservative Party.
We're not on Snopes here, you can't simply ignore the truth because it does not suit your narrative.
Boris was the Prime Minister in the 2019 General Election. He led the Tory party to a landslide victory.
Richy Sunak (sic.) got second dibs on an internal decision on who to install as PM. He did not (and will not) win a General Election for the WEF sorry I mean Tory party.
That's all I am saying. End of story.
But the ONLY people that actually voted for Boris Johnson were the constituents that he represented at the time. No one else voted FOR him, they voted for their own representative.
Anyone in Parliament could be voted to be PM if the party they are in is currently in power and the rest of the MPs of that party choose the 'anyone'.
Life is for living. Buy the shoes. Eat the cake. Ride the bikes. Just, ride the bikes!!
Screwdriver wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 2:44 pm
Boris was the Prime Minister in the 2019 General Election. He led the Tory party to a landslide victory.
But the ONLY people that actually voted for Boris Johnson were the constituents that he represented at the time. No one else voted FOR him, they voted for their own representative.
Anyone in Parliament could be voted to be PM if the party they are in is currently in power and the rest of the MPs of that party choose the 'anyone'.
I am sensing that people who do not like Boris will ignore all of the factual evidence and only support whatever suits their opinion.
Fact is: Boris was the Prime Minister in the 2019 General Election. He led the Tory party to a landslide victory.
You can append that with all the ifs and buts you like. I am very careful with my wording and I do know he was individually voted into office by his constituents, just up the road from me. That is why I specifically remind people he was PM and "led the Tory Government to a landslide victory" and not "Boris won a landslide victory".
Richy Sunak (sic.) has not been tested against the British public. I hope that will not ever be tested and he gets booted out before then or we face a disastrous Labour government who ,one assumes, are desperate to enforce the latest woke bollocks which has proved itself as a surprisingly effective tactic for increasing authoritarian governance.
“No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth.”
Plato
I am sensing that people who do not like Boris will ignore all of the factual evidence and only support whatever suits their opinion.
Yeah I'm sending that too.
So basically Sunak is in exactly the same position as was Boris, he just hasn't had a chance to validate himself to the people with a landslide victory. Tough crowd, being judged on something that hasn't happened yet.
And I think you're too harsh on the Tories, or at least not harsh enough on Labour, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Labour continue to remain unelectable and Sunak wins it by default
Makes me laugh. Some people get in a froth about the so called 'main stream media' when one of their idols gets the treatment. Do you hear anything when they're taking apart someone they don't like? Well yes, you do...the cheering ,whooping and hollering.
You point them at a few, well documented, detrimental facts about their idols and it's all lies, a hatchet job etc etc. Anything they reference from the same sources about people they don't like and it's all fundamental truth, carved on tablets of factual stone.
Present evidence from well regarded sources with something they disagree with and they'll question the integrity of the sources and redirect you to a dusty little corner of the Internet occupied by wild-eyed axe-grinders.
L O L. You couldn't make it up.
Doubt is not a pleasant condition.
But certainty is an absurd one.
Voltaire
Brexit and Jeremy Corbyn were issues in the 2019 general election, contributing to Boris’s majority.
Boris Johnson’s ratings have changed since then, but it’s normal for politicians (of all political parties) to rise and fall in popularity.
Incidentally, I fail to see what Brexit has to do with things now. Aside from the fact Rishi Sunak was always pro-Brexit (unlike Boris, who wavered initially), we left the EU over three years ago.
Also, it was Sunak who finished the Brexit job: Northern Ireland was the trickiest part of Brexit, and it was Sunak who solved it with the Windsor Framework.
Hot_Air wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 4:53 pm
Also, it was Sunak who finished the Brexit job: Northern Ireland was the trickiest part of Brexit, and it was Sunak who solved it with the Windsor Framework.
You mean the one where Sunak hands over control of Northern Ireland to the ECJ?
Didn't see that one on the side of a bus....
“No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth.”
Plato
Count Steer wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 4:51 pm
Makes me laugh. Some people get in a froth about the so called 'main stream media' when one of their idols gets the treatment. Do you hear anything when they're taking apart someone they don't like? Well yes, you do...the cheering ,whooping and hollering.
You point them at a few, well documented, detrimental facts about their idols and it's all lies, a hatchet job etc etc. Anything they reference from the same sources about people they don't like and it's all fundamental truth, carved on tablets of factual stone.
Present evidence from well regarded sources with something they disagree with and they'll question the integrity of the sources and redirect you to a dusty little corner of the Internet occupied by wild-eyed axe-grinders.
L O L. You couldn't make it up.
Cut through the rhetoric and name names. I'd like to see who said what and when.
Then we can have a sensible discussion about specific issues rather than some hand wringing, over-generalised nonsense about some mythical, unspecified event.
“No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth.”
Plato
Screwdriver wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 5:22 pm
Cut through the rhetoric and name names. I'd like to see who said what and when.
Why? So you can give us all yet another deep dive into your prejudices and theories and carefully worded intellectual gymnastics?
In your dreams.
Oh. You do mean me?
...and while happy to criticise from afar with grandiose hand sweeping generalisations, you "can't be bothered" to back up your assertions.
It's a trick I have had some success with. "Everything you say is wrong" so I'm told. Err ok lets's go through them one at a time, maybe I will learn something. Yeah, you know what I learned, not one single point was "wrong" it's just that overall the poster didn't like the way I said it.
Easy fix, put me on ignore.
“No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth.”
Plato
Screwdriver wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 5:18 pm
You mean the one where Sunak hands over control of Northern Ireland to the ECJ?
Boris Johnson co-authored (with Lord Frost) the Northern Ireland Protocol, which gave control of NI’s regulations to the relevant European agencies. For example, licensing medicines for Northern Ireland changed from the UK regulator (MHRA) to the European Medicines Agency. It’s why the Protocol caused problems: NI was part of the UK yet under EU regulatory control.
However, Sunak’s Windsor Framework restored regulatory control to the relevant UK agencies. E.g., the UK’s Medicines & Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) is back in charge of Northern Ireland’s medicines licensing.
Screwdriver wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 5:45 pm
It's a trick I have had some success with. "Everything you say is wrong" so I'm told. Err ok lets's go through them one at a time, maybe I will learn something. Yeah, you know what I learned, not one single point was "wrong" it's just that overall the poster didn't like the way I said it.
Easy fix, put me on ignore.
Well you're dead wrong about Boris for starters. And also dead wrong (or at the very least give it WAY too much weight) in your nitpicking about a covid censorship conspiracy. But let's keep it about Boris so you're not tempted to drone on about Biden.
And you're at least as wrong about Sunak, lots of vague waffle about him and the WEF. Pretty sure the same was said about Truss - if it's a conspiracy they're not very good are they,?
Screwdriver wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 5:18 pm
You mean the one where Sunak hands over control of Northern Ireland to the ECJ?
Boris Johnson co-authored (with Lord Frost) the Northern Ireland Protocol, which gave control of NI’s regulations to the relevant European agencies. For example, licensing medicines for Northern Ireland changed from the UK regulator (MHRA) to the European Medicines Agency. It’s why the Protocol caused problems: NI was part of the UK yet under EU regulatory control.
However, Sunak’s Windsor Framework restored regulatory control to the relevant UK agencies. E.g., the UK’s Medicines & Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) is back in charge of Northern Ireland’s medicines licensing.
Yeah it's a clusterfuck that's for sure. Compromise always is to one degree or another. All I am really saying (without knowing too much about) is that Sunak hasn't done anything to further the cause for Brexit. NI was always going to be a problem. Still is.
“No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth.”
Plato
Screwdriver wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 4:02 pm
[People[ who do not like [insert name] will ignore all of the factual evidence and only support whatever suits their opinion.
Plus ça change.
"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people." - Giordano Bruno
Another one was beer gate. Indoor gatherings not allowed, but they all did it, as apparrently it was a work event, drinking beer and eating curry, after their work event.
Funny that the Police Crime Commissioner for the area is also a Labour member.....
Screwdriver wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 6:28 pm
All I am really saying (without knowing too much about) is that Sunak hasn't done anything to further the cause for Brexit.
I’m curious: what do you mean about furthering the cause for Brexit?
IMO, Brexit is done. We left over three years ago. The remaining (excuse the pun ) issues were Northern Ireland and international trade deals. However, Sunak solved the Northern Ireland Protocol’s problems with the Windsor Framework.
Trade deals aren’t an overnight job — they will take years to sort out with our largest trading partners. But much of that work is technocratic, and the politicians have little to do with it.
L. You couldn't make it up.
) issues were Northern Ireland and international trade deals. However, Sunak solved the Northern Ireland Protocol’s problems with the Windsor Framework.