The two teenagers in Ely/ Cardiff

[Horse]

, it does seem strange that the police claimed to have been somewhere else when it happened and I'd like to know if they had a dashcam fitted to the police vehicle

All police vehicles are GPS tracked.

[Mussels]

According to the beeb the police were right behind said scrotes up to a point, then they turned away. BUT the reason they turned away was 'cause said scrotes went down a pedestrianised/bollarded road and the van couldn't follow. So it's just as likely the police were 'going around' to try and catch up with the kids later on.

It all puts rather a dent in the Police claim they weren't chasing the kids at the time of the crash IMO. Yeah OK you weren't directly behind them, but all involved could still have been under the impression there was a chase going on.

Not that I think Police shouldn't be chasing people BTW. But they don't half shoot themselves in the foot sometimes with claims and changing stories.

In police speak follow and chase are probably two different things, I expect they checked the log and no chase was recorded.

[Taff]

In my Youth I did get caught riding a crosser on the road and the coppers had video evidence of me doing it, but the main difference is that I chose to stop and do everything I could to pass the attitude test rather than upping the ante.

These youths had the same option.

I walked away with a warning and strong words of advice, I doubt they would have been so lucky in todays world

[Yorick]

In my Youth I did get caught riding a crosser on the road and the coppers had video evidence of me doing it, but the main difference is that I chose to stop and do everything I could to pass the attitude test rather than upping the ante.

These youths had the same option.

I walked away with a warning and strong words of advice, I doubt they would have been so lucky in todays world

I'm sure we were all prats in our yoof.
It's how we handled the ending that defined us.

[Taipan]

I can't find anywhere that says how or what they crashed into?

Did they hit a wall, a car?

Must have been pretty major to kill them both?

I believe it was a lamp post. Looks like they were heading for a staggered gateway thing where the van couldn't have followed.

[weeksy]

In my Youth I did get caught riding a crosser on the road and the coppers had video evidence of me doing it, but the main difference is that I chose to stop and do everything I could to pass the attitude test rather than upping the ante.

These youths had the same option.

I walked away with a warning and strong words of advice, I doubt they would have been so lucky in todays world

I'm sure we were all prats in our yoof.
It's how we handled the ending that defined us.

I did many many things that would have seen me in jail if caught, I did proper stupid shit. But one day, I kinda changed a bit. But was more luck than judgement

However, I'm not convinced that 'youth' I see now are the same as the youth from back in the day, theyre more angry, more nasty and horrible. Is that their fault or society, I'm not sure in truth.

[Nordboy]

In my Youth I did get caught riding a crosser on the road and the coppers had video evidence of me doing it, but the main difference is that I chose to stop and do everything I could to pass the attitude test rather than upping the ante.

These youths had the same option.

I walked away with a warning and strong words of advice, I doubt they would have been so lucky in todays world

I'm sure we were all prats in our yoof.
It's how we handled the ending that defined us.

I did many many things that would have seen me in jail if caught, I did proper stupid shit. But one day, I kinda changed a bit. But was more luck than judgement

However, I'm not convinced that 'youth' I see now are the same as the youth from back in the day, theyre more angry, more nasty and horrible. Is that their fault or society, I'm not sure in truth.

I've seen things change dramatically, over the last 20+ years, and I've been in the deep end for most of that. They are more nasty, SM is now a gauge for the youngsters today, be more confrontational and do horrible crap to people for likes and followers, it drives them.

There's very little personal responsibility these days, it's all 'it's my right', always someone else's fault, and a real sense of entitlement, and this is not just the 'working' class, this is across society. We now have many generations that don't work, have very little aspiration to work or better themselves, grandparents/ parents and now children who rely on handouts and getting everything for free, some people increasing their income by committing crime.

Who's fault is it? It's their fault, it's society's fault, it's a mixture of all of it, and in some part, it's our fault for allowing it to continue, unchecked.

What I do know, it's not going to change, not for generations and many many governments to come. It's also going to get worse before it gets any better, buckle up!!

[Yambo]

Who's fault is it? It's their fault, it's society's fault, it's a mixture of all of it, and in some part, it's our fault for allowing it to continue, unchecked.

There's definitely a big element of it being society's fault and a fair bit of that is the liberalisation of the criminal justice system (I'm not pointing the finger at you or the police Nordboy, my son was a copper so I'm well aware of how your job has changed, although many senior officers in the police seem to be a bit wet). If society does not want youth to learn discipline it is going to have to reap the whirlwind. There will eventually be a change, even a backlash but that won't happen until Parliament is filled with people who care about the country before their own priorities and start working for the general good.

[weeksy]

If these kids are anything, then they are simply a product of the generations before them.

I do wonder if we could transplant a few of them say in 1940 and send them out to war, how quickly they'd 'get it' and come back to some sort of normality, or whether they'd just curl up in a ball and die in a ditch.... The ability to learn lessons must exist as must a survival instinct... but i don't know what would happen.

[DefTrap]

I think a lot of people are fine with doing mostly feck all, having a bit of a moan, taking handouts and have a totally unrealistic and skewed view of the world.

My S-I-L is the perfect example. 60s. Never really had a proper job - bits and pieces of low-paid manual stuff. Always subbed by handouts up to and including food bank style stuff even recently. But if you asked her she'd tell you she'd worked hard all her life and deserves it. She's not a nasty person but is unfortunately a bit of a deluded bint. This is the big problem - plenty are prepared to do bits and bobs to get by and are fine with the massive safety net. 90% of the working population are flogging themselves to death earning not a whole lot more doing actual jobs and not taking benefits. A small proportion have the ability, nouse, opportunity to make a really good life for themselves now and for the future. But people like my S-I-L just think those of us in regular work are lucky or idiots.

That said (in that other thread with the young fuckwit, a similar example of what's wrong with the world) Piers Morgan has a face that you would cross space and time to punch. I almost sided with the young gangsta, that's how much of a bellend he is and how excruciating the interview was.

[Mr. Dazzle]

But if you asked her she'd tell you she'd worked hard all her life and deserves it. She's not a nasty person but is unfortunately a bit of a deluded bint. This is the big problem - plenty are prepared to do bits and bobs to get by and are fine with the massive safety net.

It's a logic I don't understand.

My FiL was similar, he said (pretty much word for word) "MiL did low paid jobs all her life, therefore she should be looked after now she's retired".

I don't get how you can square that in your head, but plenty do.

[irie]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/f ... r-30061139

When you look at the video, they do appear to be being chased - but two up on a Suron type, de -restricted e-motorbike,

Those things are north of 3 grand. So where did they get it? Either they're thieving little fuckers or some dickhead lent it to them.

I have fuck all sympathy for them, or the twats and their pathetic riot. (Laughs in Belfast accent)

I wonder how brave they'd be if the cops or army started firing plastic bullets at them?

The "dickheads" who gave the electric motorcycle to them was the parent of one of the riders.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-65714633.amp

The electric bike ridden by two teenagers before they were killed in a crash was an early 16th birthday present, family members have revealed.

The aunt of Harvey Evans, 15, said the teen loved e-bikes and scooters and the present had been bought for his birthday next month.

[Nordboy]

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wale ... e-27004884

As has been discussed about, talking about the lack of personal responsibility. A quote from an Aunt of one of the boys in the Wales online story..

"Ms Murphy later added that she did not have faith or trust in the police. "I've got faith and trust in my family and this community that we will continue to fight and get the truth out there and we get justice for these boys," she said."

[Mr. Dazzle]

What justice are they looking for here? It was a single vehicle accident.

I know the answer of course, blame it entirely on the police. If they're looking for blame maybe start with a mirror.

[Kneerly Down]

There's very little personal responsibility these days, it's all 'it's my right', always someone else's fault, and a real sense of entitlement, and this is not just the 'working' class, this is across society.

There's a 21stC update to the parable of The Good Samaritan:

A social worker came across the half-dead man and crossed to the other side of the road saying 'we need to help the people who did this'

[irie]

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wale ... e-27004884

As has been discussed about, talking about the lack of personal responsibility. A quote from an Aunt of one of the boys in the Wales online story..

"Ms Murphy later added that she did not have faith or trust in the police. "I've got faith and trust in my family and this community that we will continue to fight and get the truth out there and we get justice for these boys," she said."

The motorcycle will have required licensing and insuring, and in any case the riders were under the age of 16. If the police hadn't followed them and the riders had injured/killed others then the police would have been blamed for not doing their duty.

The parents are responsible for the deaths of their children.

[Mr. Dazzle]

eBikes and eScooters in general are a fucking menace BTW in my view.

The general idea makes sense, but most people think of them as "just a bicycle" and not a moped or similar. IME its always bell ends without a modicum of road sense or general awareness riding them too.

I've had a few bumbles about on the short term hire ones here in MK (culminating in a broke collar bone ). In terms of how they should be used on the road they're much closer to a Motorcycle than a Bicycle in my view.

Incidentally you also need to show your driving licence to make the phone app work, yet I see loads of kids on them around MK. Clearly people's parents are assisting in their illegal use.

[Treadeager]

There's very little personal responsibility these days, it's all 'it's my right', always someone else's fault, and a real sense of entitlement, and this is not just the 'working' class, this is across society.

There's a 21stC update to the parable of The Good Samaritan:

A social worker came across the half-dead man and crossed to the other side of the road saying 'we need to help the people who did this'

Yeah but....doesn't " Let he that without sin cast the first stone " still stand ?

[Mr. Dazzle]

Yeah they make total sense if you're not a twat.

25mph down the cycle lane two up in near silence coming up behind young kids is twatish.

[Bigjawa]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/f ... r-30061139

When you look at the video, they do appear to be being chased - but two up on a Suron type, de -restricted e-motorbike,

Those things are north of 3 grand. So where did they get it? Either they're thieving little fuckers or some dickhead lent it to them.

I have fuck all sympathy for them, or the twats and their pathetic riot. (Laughs in Belfast accent)

I wonder how brave they'd be if the cops or army started firing plastic bullets at them?

The "dickheads" who gave the electric motorcycle to them was the parent of one of the riders.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-65714633.amp

The electric bike ridden by two teenagers before they were killed in a crash was an early 16th birthday present, family members have revealed.

The aunt of Harvey Evans, 15, said the teen loved e-bikes and scooters and the present had been bought for his birthday next month.

Idiots allowing their kids to roam about on the public road with an illegal motor vehicle. Not the sharpest toolsin the box......

eBikes and eScooters in general are a fucking menace BTW in my view.

The general idea makes sense, but most people think of them as "just a bicycle" and not a moped or similar. IME its always bell ends without a modicum of road sense or general awareness riding them too.

I've had a few bumbles about on the short term hire ones here in MK (culminating in a broke collar bone ). In terms of how they should be used on the road they're much closer to a Motorcycle than a Bicycle in my view.

Incidentally you also need to show your driving licence to make the phone app work, yet I see loads of kids on them around MK. Clearly people's parents are assisting in their illegal use.

There has been a couple of fatal accidents over here on them, one on a 60mph road got himself clobbered by an XC90, the other was notorious for generally acting like he was invincible. He wasn't.