I can't go round corners anymore?

[Supermofo]

Counter steering does it for me. I don't lean as much as push my way around corners. Surprisingly effective.

I raced for 10 years without knowing what counter steering was

It comes naturally

Not too everyone

caught-on-camer-89436-1024x576.jpg

Doesn't look like he even got to the bend before crashing!

[The Spin Doctor]

I've noticed that I no longer lean into corners anymore? Seriously, I blat towards them then go around at a normal speed with hardly any lean and a country mile of getting a peg down. Its not like i was ever quick or a destroyer of tyres, but I'd often feel my boot or peg touch down on the same roads I'm riding today, but not anymore? Strange?

I don't know when this started or when I stopped doing it? Maybe subconsciously I'm worried, as busting up a mechanical knee wont end well I suppose? Maybe just encroaching gifferdom? Or is it just the older I get, the faster I was syndrome kicking in...

Maybe you've realised that on the road the 'right' speed for a bend is not the speed that allows us to get round it but the speed that allows us to stop mid-corner if we have to. And not too surprisingly, the slower we take the corner, the easier that becomes.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

IMG_20230525_073608_(1500_x_2000_pixel).jpg (507.76 KiB) Viewed 520 times

Bigger chicken strips than KFC

[Noggin]

Counter steering does it for me. I don't lean as much as push my way around corners. Surprisingly effective.

I raced for 10 years without knowing what counter steering was

It comes naturally

I think it doesn't for some (just seen Spin saying similar) - I suspect it depends on stuff you did as a kid to a degree?

I rode pushbikes like a nutter with my brother - hurling bikes around corners and through fields and trees. I also rode horses from when I could walk (probably a bit before! I was on a horse as soon as I could sit up!) so I suspect that without knowing it, I learnt and used counter-steering without knowing.

I had an instructor explain it too me and I couldn't understand it for ages - because it was automatic, I'd never broken it down!!

[Supermofo]

I had an instructor explain it too me and I couldn't understand it for ages - because it was automatic, I'd never broken it down!!

Similar, I read it in a magazine. Went out to practice and realised I'd always done it.

[Horse]

Counter steering does it for me. I don't lean as much as push my way around corners. Surprisingly effective.

I raced for 10 years without knowing what counter steering was

It comes naturally

I think it doesn't for some (just seen Spin saying similar) - I suspect it depends on stuff you did as a kid to a degree?

I suspect that without knowing it, I learnt and used counter-steering without knowing.

I had an instructor explain it too me and I couldn't understand it for ages - because it was automatic, I'd never broken it down!!

Many people (and Yozzer is a 'perfect' example) don't need to know. They lean their body and so press the bars, or they've learnt to do it without realising it.

But that doesn't work for every. Often going wrong when they make a conscious effort / attempt. Examples would be when they need to tighten their line in a bend*, or swerve.

Those instances are where they need to know 'how' - and have practiced so it's ingrained. Best way is to make it a conscious action.

For @Taipan , if you're happily getting around the corner, you've leant over enough.

[Buckaroo]

Counter steering does it for me. I don't lean as much as push my way around corners. Surprisingly effective.

Shhhh

Unless someone is signed up to the Ancient Order of IAM Masonic Buffalo Forrester Lions Rotary Rider Trainers, you can't tell them that!

Sorry, I thought being an IAM mbflrtt was mandatory on RTTL and pietin was having a senior moment, or was it me?

[wull]

I think most people will counter steer it’s just how much of an input that may differ. It’s like riding a push bike, people don’t realise that you have to counter steer to turn them, try turning left or right by turning that way and you’ll soon see it doesn’t work, so as you learn from a young age a slight push (inside) or pull (outside) on the bars helps start the turn initially then you can turn the bars that way to continue the turn, we do it subconsciously.

[Bigyin]

Still a bit to use yet, just need to ride a bit harder

You misunderstood, I never said I was a riding god or the fastest thing on the road. I said I enjoyed the riding and the corners at the speeds I was riding at.

Riding harder wouldn’t have been as enjoyable and more chance of an unscheduled dismount so I’ll stick with my level and leave the “ride harder” to others

[wull]

My bad, there must have been another reason for posting it especially when it doesn’t really contribute to what the OP posted and is asking.

[Screwdriver]

I think most people will counter steer it’s just how much of an input that may differ. It’s like riding a push bike, people don’t realise that you have to counter steer to turn them, try turning left or right by turning that way and you’ll soon see it doesn’t work, so as you learn from a young age a slight push (inside) or pull (outside) on the bars helps start the turn initially then you can turn the bars that way to continue the turn, we do it subconsciously.

No. Everybody who can go around a corner on a motorcycle (or bicycle) will HAVE to counter steer. It is how these mechanisms work. What happens is it becomes automatic as you suggest. Much of that can be subtle changes in body position which you learn pretty early on then, then I assume, may forget when out of practice.

When I was a bike instructor, I would tell people to try leaning into a bend by "dropping their shoulder" into the turn. If you drop your left shoulder, you automatically increase pressure on the left handlebar, pushing it slightly forwards, initiating the turn (to the left!). You can try it right now sitting in your chair. Drop your shoulder and you'll automatically push the attached arm away and your upper body will twist to the right.

I find that is the best way to describe counter steering without the confusing instruction to "turn right to go left". Just use your shoulder to steer you where you want to go.

[Screwdriver]

I've noticed that I no longer lean into corners anymore? Seriously, I blat towards them then go around at a normal speed with hardly any lean and a country mile of getting a peg down. Its not like i was ever quick or a destroyer of tyres, but I'd often feel my boot or peg touch down on the same roads I'm riding today, but not anymore? Strange?

I don't know when this started or when I stopped doing it? Maybe subconsciously I'm worried, as busting up a mechanical knee wont end well I suppose? Maybe just encroaching gifferdom? Or is it just the older I get, the faster I was syndrome kicking in...

Before Kenny Roberts/Barry Sheen made it so popular and tyres became so wide, knee down was not a requirement for being fast. Mike Hailwood was very fast and he wasn't a knee down guy.

Tyre width changed the dynamic because you need to shift the centre of gravity to below the centre line of the tyre. Otherwise the width of the tyre means the centripetal force is acting in a straight line above the contact patch of the tyre, reducing grip. You really shouldn't need those few extra percentage points on the road(!) because if you need to get your knee down to stop the tyre from sliding, you are way beyond any sort of safety margin for road use.

[wull]

I think most people will counter steer it’s just how much of an input that may differ. It’s like riding a push bike, people don’t realise that you have to counter steer to turn them, try turning left or right by turning that way and you’ll soon see it doesn’t work, so as you learn from a young age a slight push (inside) or pull (outside) on the bars helps start the turn initially then you can turn the bars that way to continue the turn, we do it subconsciously.

No. Everybody who can go around a corner on a motorcycle (or bicycle) will HAVE to counter steer. It is how these mechanisms work. What happens is it becomes automatic as you suggest. Much of that can be subtle changes in body position which you learn pretty early on then, then I assume, may forget when out of practice.

When I was a bike instructor, I would tell people to try leaning into a bend by "dropping their shoulder" into the turn. If you drop your left shoulder, you automatically increase pressure on the left handlebar, pushing it slightly forwards, initiating the turn (to the left!). You can try it right now sitting in your chair. Drop your shoulder and you'll automatically push the attached arm away and your upper body will twist to the right.

I find that is the best way to describe counter steering without the confusing instruction to "turn right to go left". Just use your shoulder to steer you where you want to go.

Pretty much what I was meaning but didn’t want to sound cock sure, that’s why I like to put “I think” or “most people”.

[Noggin]

Many people (and Yozzer is a 'perfect' example) don't need to know. They lean their body and so press the bars, or they've learnt to do it without realising it.

But that doesn't work for every. Often going wrong when they make a conscious effort / attempt. Examples would be when they need to tighten their line in a bend*, or swerve.

Those instances are where they need to know 'how' - and have practiced so it's ingrained. Best way is to make it a conscious action.

For @Taipan , if you're happily getting around the corner, you've leant over enough.

It is also easy to 'forget' if you don't use the technique for a long time. Well, not forget exactly but it stops being automatic (as I found almost to my cost).

Probably doesn't help that skiing seems to be opposite, so when I did eventually get on a bike I was comfy on and 'threw' it into a series of bends a little to fast, I very much missed the automatic way of riding

[Wossname]

I find that is the best way to describe counter steering without the confusing instruction to "turn right to go left". Just use your shoulder to steer you where you want to go.

I’ve never heard that instruction. It’s always been ‘push right to turn right’, which seems fairly straightforward.

The latest version, and probably lots of earlier ones, of the IAM’s Roadcraft has a diagram showing a bike approaching a right hand bend. The advice in a little box is, at this point, ‘counter steer left’.

Eh?

[Count Steer]

I'd managed without knowing anything about it for umpteen years. Then I read about it and decided to have a go on my bicycle. Rolling along by the side of the house I gave a firm push on one side of the bars....and nearly ran into the garage.

I was a bit more circumspect when I tried it on the bike - but it did make a difference to my riding, actually knowing what I was doing. Got much better at cornering, it was strangely relaxing. Previously think I must have been mentally and physically tightening up. After that it was *press* Wheeeeeeeee! *grin*

[Cousin Jack]

I think most people will counter steer it’s just how much of an input that may differ. It’s like riding a push bike, people don’t realise that you have to counter steer to turn them, try turning left or right by turning that way and you’ll soon see it doesn’t work, so as you learn from a young age a slight push (inside) or pull (outside) on the bars helps start the turn initially then you can turn the bars that way to continue the turn, we do it subconsciously.

No. Everybody who can go around a corner on a motorcycle (or bicycle) will HAVE to counter steer. It is how these mechanisms work. What happens is it becomes automatic as you suggest. Much of that can be subtle changes in body position which you learn pretty early on then, then I assume, may forget when out of practice.

When I was a bike instructor, I would tell people to try leaning into a bend by "dropping their shoulder" into the turn. If you drop your left shoulder, you automatically increase pressure on the left handlebar, pushing it slightly forwards, initiating the turn (to the left!). You can try it right now sitting in your chair. Drop your shoulder and you'll automatically push the attached arm away and your upper body will twist to the right.

I find that is the best way to describe counter steering without the confusing instruction to "turn right to go left". Just use your shoulder to steer you where you want to go.

I was told to kiss the mirror.

[Taipan]

Apart from larking about, I don't think I've ever hung off a bike to corner? Never knew I countersteered until I heard the term and realised I must be doing it. I just can't remember the last time I touched a boot or peg down when going around a corner. I think its because I ride such cool bikes i'm kinda obliged to go slower and let people feast their eyes n them. Yeah, that'll be it!

[Taipan]

I think most people will counter steer it’s just how much of an input that may differ. It’s like riding a push bike, people don’t realise that you have to counter steer to turn them, try turning left or right by turning that way and you’ll soon see it doesn’t work, so as you learn from a young age a slight push (inside) or pull (outside) on the bars helps start the turn initially then you can turn the bars that way to continue the turn, we do it subconsciously.

No. Everybody who can go around a corner on a motorcycle (or bicycle) will HAVE to counter steer. It is how these mechanisms work. What happens is it becomes automatic as you suggest. Much of that can be subtle changes in body position which you learn pretty early on then, then I assume, may forget when out of practice.

When I was a bike instructor, I would tell people to try leaning into a bend by "dropping their shoulder" into the turn. If you drop your left shoulder, you automatically increase pressure on the left handlebar, pushing it slightly forwards, initiating the turn (to the left!). You can try it right now sitting in your chair. Drop your shoulder and you'll automatically push the attached arm away and your upper body will twist to the right.

I find that is the best way to describe counter steering without the confusing instruction to "turn right to go left". Just use your shoulder to steer you where you want to go.

I was told to kiss the mirror.

Never thought to do that on a bike...

[Yorick]

Apart from larking about, I don't think I've ever hung off a bike to corner? Never knew I countersteered until I heard the term and realised I must be doing it. I just can't remember the last time I touched a boot or peg down when going around a corner. I think its because I ride such cool bikes i'm kinda obliged to go slower and let people feast their eyes n them. Yeah, that'll be it!

Probably looking in shop windows at your reflection rather than leaning the bloody thing