In todays news...

[cheb]

Yes, the national debt for the USA is astounding.

Only way out of it for the USA is to start a decent war somewhere.

Think about it, when some banks collapsed it caused a global crisis that hit the whole planet - so imagine if the USA formally financially collapses!*
It will wipe out pensions, investment funds, banks, etc, all around the world.

But that's all in 'merica and won't affect the English goldfish bowl

*It actually has already collapsed, but they can agree to print more money and 'borrow' it to appear like it hasn't.
Without the loan they can't pay pensions, social services, their debts, etc - they will actually go bust.

I couldn't give two figs about the English goldfish bowl, I live in Scotland.

[Potter]

How has the USA etc got to that point of debt?

I see a lot of people stating these facts...

Don't take my word for it - https://www.bbc.com/news/business-65633280


"If Democrats and Republicans do not agree to allow the US to borrow more - or, in their language, raise the debt ceiling - the world's biggest economy will default on its $31.4 trillion (£25tn) debt."

"...if it did, "it would make the global financial crisis look like a tea party", says Simon French, chief economist at investment bank Panmure Gordon, referring to the near collapse of the world's banking industry in 2008."

I don't expect anyone to give a shit, until they're standing broke and wondering how it all happened.

[Potter]

I couldn't give two figs about the English goldfish bowl, I live in Scotland.

I deliberately didn't include Scotland because it's already bolloxed

[cheb]

Give me a week or two and I'll try and prove you wrong.

[Potter]

Give me a week or two and I'll try and prove you wrong.

I was joking, I wouldn't know how to realistically measure Scotland or England in isolation to each other - without politics, emotion and what ifs.

[Greenman]

Pretty much every nation has huge amounts of debt. In fact if you're got a vaguely normal pension fund there's a good chance you "own" some of that debt and a/the government owes you some money*.

Once you get into the billions and trillions of debt it all becomes a bit of an abstract concept really!

*No you can't go to number 10 and demand it

So basically the more money you are responsible for the less responsible you have to be with it, is that what your saying?

IMO the leaders and people in financial rolls that have let the debt pile up to such a figure should be forced to pay back as much as they can from their own personal vast wealth, wealth that was probably gained by using tax money incorrectly to benefit their own back pockets in the first place

The Irony!

[Screwdriver]

Some perspective:

...What is the USA national debt currently? About 30 trillion dollars. How much is that?

Well if you stack one silver dollar on top of another, how high is 30 trillion times that?

Probably just hit the moon? Nope

Knock the JWST out of orbit? Nope

A 30 trillion dollar pile would graze the orbit of Mars from here. I mean. Fucking Hell!

[Greenman]

How has the USA etc got to that point of debt?

I see a lot of people stating these facts...

Don't take my word for it - https://www.bbc.com/news/business-65633280


"If Democrats and Republicans do not agree to allow the US to borrow more - or, in their language, raise the debt ceiling - the world's biggest economy will default on its $31.4 trillion (£25tn) debt."

"...if it did, "it would make the global financial crisis look like a tea party", says Simon French, chief economist at investment bank Panmure Gordon, referring to the near collapse of the world's banking industry in 2008."

I don't expect anyone to give a shit, until they're standing broke and wondering how it all happened.

I wasn't doubting your facts, just trying to get to the bottom of how they got into the debt in the fist place and who has fucked up to get them in such debt.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Even Rishi Sunak's £500 million of wealth wouldn't make a dent in a dent on a trillion dollars. It's 0.05% of the sum.

Government debt goes back centuries, literally. It's nothing at all like your overdraft.

BTW, they do have a cap on teh amount of debt they're allowed. That's precisely the problem in the US at the moment, they're about to exceed the cap which is set in law. So either they stay below the cap and they default on a bunch of bills, or they change the cap.

[Cousin Jack]

They have history of this. They always take it right to the wire and then change the rules.

[Yambo]

I blame the lenders.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Here you go Greenie...US government debt over a couple of hundred years.

Note how it goes up and down all over the place. I don't think it's much of an exaggeration to say that borrowing/debt is the topic which drives Treasuries. It's their biggest job.

It may also amuse you to know that a big contributor to the original US independence movement was the fact the UK government raised taxes on the US colonies partly to pay off UK sovereign debt incurred as part of the French and Indian war. It all goes back years .

[Greenman]

Even Rishi Sunak's £500 million of wealth wouldn't make a dent in a dent on a trillion dollars. It's 0.05% of the sum.

Government debt goes back centuries, literally. It's nothing at all like your overdraft.

BTW, they do have a cap on teh amount of debt they're allowed. That's precisely the problem in the US at the moment, they're about to exceed the cap which is set in law. So either they stay below the cap and they default on a bunch of bills, or they change the cap.

What i was getting at is that unless they do their job correctly and deal with the money in a correct way (not creaming off the top, being irresponsible, pushing a country into more debt etc) they will be penalised by having to pay back x % of the debt from their own wealth.

It seems to me that people with wealth/power have too little consequences to their actions, they probably know this and continue to just do a shitty job and fuck everything up for the rest of us, maybe if there were to be some sort of punishment for them not doing their job correctly they might stop fucking up all the time.

If we done our jobs incorrectly and put our businesses into massive debt leading to insolvency, we would lose our jobs and probably find it hard to get another in the same industry, why not those at the top?

The company i have worked for and initially helped setup wen't into insolvency a few weeks back due to the MD being totally useless and irresponsible. I pulled away from a directorship about a year in as i could not work how the MD was working (unlawfully). He has now got away scott free by declaring bankruptcy and has had about £110k wiped off his debt, i don't think this is fair. I was owed 6k but was moved to a zero our contract so i have no way of claiming this back, same with 2 other colleagues, another company was owed 18k which they now won't get, it's not right IMO. He should be held accountable for his incompetence and so should those running our countries.

If i missed a few tax payments i'd probably be but in jail or have a nice big sum to pay further down the line!

[Mr. Dazzle]

I suggest you don't look up how much Bond traders make from buying and selling government debt, it'll only raise your blood pressure

[Greenman]

I suggest you don't look up how much Bond traders make from buying and selling government debt, it'll only raise your blood pressure

Not sure it can go much higher tbh...

[JackyJoll]

I couldn't give two figs about the English goldfish bowl, I live in Scotland.

I deliberately didn't include Scotland because it's already bolloxed

It’s the Scottish jam jar.

[JackyJoll]

Give me a week or two and I'll try and prove you wrong.

Are you going to buy it?

[JackyJoll]

Some perspective:

...What is the USA national debt currently? About 30 trillion dollars. How much is that?

Well if you stack one silver dollar on top of another, how high is 30 trillion times that?

Probably just hit the moon? Nope

Knock the JWST out of orbit? Nope

A 30 trillion dollar pile would graze the orbit of Mars from here. I mean. Fucking Hell!

Yeah but a silver dollar is worth about $20.

[ZRX61]

This whole US Debt limit fiasco is bullshit. It's ALL pantomime. Here's the hard facts:

1, US defaults on it's debts.
2, China dumps all the US bonds it holds.
3, Entire world economy collapses... pretty much overnight

Anyone think the US will allow that to happen?

[Screwdriver]

No. I don't. Despite the BRICS proposal/shenanigans, the USA is just too militarily powerful. They are too big to fail.

Doesn't bode well for the rest of the world. Somebody has to pay and that's most likely you and me. Middle classes are next (that's the rest of this forum). An as yet untapped resource.

Now look back at "the Great Reset" in light of this rather obvious looming financial monster. Now you can see what they have been doing and why. Not so far fetched now is it?