Supermofo wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 9:47 am
I find it interesting how many people say they hate IL4's. Watching a fair few reviews of the GSX-S1000 over the last couple of years I note how many reviewers say how great the engine is and how surprised they are to like it, a lot of them being twin owners. It's almost as if the default is it'll be shit and then they spend a fair portion of the video saying how much they actually like it.
Never really had an engine configuration I haven't liked as such. Not ridden a 6, but ridden most types.
Some of it is perception. Buyers have been fed the line that twins have more torque/grunt than a 'peaky' in line four. Depending on which apples and oranges are being compared,this is quite often untrue,especially when you factor in things like gearing. I'm not even going to mention 'character'.
It really just depends on what you like to ride and what you like the sound of. It's good to have choice in all areas,not just outright performance.
I used to get shot down on the Aprilia forum when I pointed out that my Blandit 12 had more torque than my RSV1000R Factory - wasn't well received or believed until I posted the manufacturer figures
I own 3 inline 4s, two of them are pretty similar engine wise despite 30 years difference in age, 1990 FZ750 and 2020 GSXS 750, the GSXS engine is like the FZ engine but better everywhere, I've also go an 1170 1982ish Kawasaki which rides very differently, it's all torque and grunt, maximum power is about 100bhp at 8500rpm and it has a heavy crank so high revs aren't a sensible option.
Not all inline 4s are the same, Yamaha have made the R1 fire like a twin.
Twins and singles give better traction thanks to the bigger gap between power pulses, a way to think about it is like the difference between using a big hammer to knock a nail in or using a small hammer with more hits.
Supermofo wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 9:47 am
I find it interesting how many people say they hate IL4's.
I've been one of these more than a few times as you know. However the other week riding the ZX6 highlighted to me that the engine is just 'easy'... There's no on-off, there's no dealy, no hunting, no lack of X or Y.... it just goes and stops. The engine in IL4s is really just an effortless thing to own and ride. I'd happily buy one again now.
Obviously i'm more likely to buy a pedal bike... but i'd happily buy an IL4 if i were going down the motorbike route.
Yup, I loved the engine on the 690 but the GSXS is just so easy and effortless with bags of grunt/power everywhere. Ok so it makes more up top than down low, but it's certainly not lacking down low or in the midrange. So it's relative rather than a lack of. I love this engine it's a peach
I think that I prefer an IL4 above the other types. The v4 is the tuono was very good but I only had it for 2 days. The triples I had were fine. Most of the v-twins have been ok if they rev properly but they are more vibey. I think that this is absolutely fine if you're constantly varying speed but for a tourer I don't think a v-twin is what I want.
It didn't have the revvy top end of a four or the low down stomp of a big twin. It was terribly bland.
I hear the Yamaha triples are much betterer.
My V twin Varadero was a great Tourer, lots of low down stomp to get you out of those low speed hairpins two up. I think the more powerful KTM kind of sacrifice the low down stomp for more top end.
Supermofo wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 9:47 am
I find it interesting how many people say they hate IL4's. Watching a fair few reviews of the GSX-S1000 over the last couple of years I note how many reviewers say how great the engine is and how surprised they are to like it, a lot of them being twin owners. It's almost as if the default is it'll be shit and then they spend a fair portion of the video saying how much they actually like it.
Never really had an engine configuration I haven't liked as such. Not ridden a 6, but ridden most types.
I disliked every il4 600 Ive had or tried. Hideous things, nothing below say10k and the ones that did have anything below there were just gutless. I don't have much experience of big engined il4s though. My zx9R was nice, the 919 Blade wasn't. But they are very old bikes by comparison. So modern il4s may well be much better, even the smaller capacity ones? But I like low down torque and grunt and am not someone that likes to make a bike work hard to get the best out of it.
Not in the market for another bike, nor likely to be for weeks yet, but if I was, a bike I've fancied for a while is an il4, the cb1000r. Not sure how that would work out for me though, but maybe one day...
The only IL4 600 I've ridden and liked was the FZR600R I had, all the other ones I've ridden have been horrible, the GSXR600 is particularly horrible, I've ridden and owned 400cc inline 4s, they need keeping above 10,000 rpm to make them move, two strokes are easier to ride, for road use I wouldn't have a modern inline 4 smaller than 750, the 600s are making too much top end power to have any midrange, the older mid size 4s were fine to ride, people used to love GPz550s with good reason, they were nice to ride.
Supermofo wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 9:47 am
I find it interesting how many people say they hate IL4's.
I've been one of these more than a few times as you know. However the other week riding the ZX6 highlighted to me that the engine is just 'easy'... There's no on-off, there's no dealy, no hunting, no lack of X or Y.... it just goes and stops. The engine in IL4s is really just an effortless thing to own and ride. I'd happily buy one again now.
Obviously i'm more likely to buy a pedal bike... but i'd happily buy an IL4 if i were going down the motorbike route.
Yup, I loved the engine on the 690 but the GSXS is just so easy and effortless with bags of grunt/power everywhere. Ok so it makes more up top than down low, but it's certainly not lacking down low or in the midrange. So it's relative rather than a lack of. I love this engine it's a peach
I suppose mine is similar. I saw a dyno graph where mine makes over 100 gee gees at a mere 6,000
Plenty of stomp.
I find myself being attracted to those - shame they don't have. twin engine
They stopped the K12 in 2008 and it became the K13 - never tried the 13 but I assume it was similar to the 12 in all respects only fasterer. The engine is marv (I had a twin cylinder bike as well ).
Oh, I forgot. Shaft drive ...and ESA
Did they ever make a K13GT? I thought they only did the GT with the 1200 engine (because it sold like dog turds).
Because they looked like a fridge with wheels. And R1200RT. I don't think a lot of BMW riders were ready for a transverse IL4.
The K12 engine is a peach though, power from any revs, I rode mine to work today and it never fails to impress me how effortlessly fast it is.
I remember when I first got the K, coming upon a guy on a B12 and his mate on a CBR1000F. They took off like scalded cats but the K annihilated them, its an extremely impressive motorcycle.
I love my R1150, and will happily ride it everywhere though. Its not fast, just "nice"
Yorick wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 12:19 pm
I suppose mine is similar. I saw a dyno graph where mine makes over 100 gee gees at a mere 6,000
Plenty of stomp.
Yes I reckon so. I don't think Suzuki did much to the GSXS except lop the top end off a K5. I'm guessing they gave it a little more midrange and changed the gearing but not much else.
I was chatting to a bloke on Sunday with the same bike as mine. He said he'd had it tuned/remapped with minimal changes I think to airbox, rev limiter and a full system/remap and went from 145 to 163. With no faring I don't think I'd bother and will spend the cash on suspension.
They stopped the K12 in 2008 and it became the K13 - never tried the 13 but I assume it was similar to the 12 in all respects only fasterer. The engine is marv (I had a twin cylinder bike as well ).
Oh, I forgot. Shaft drive ...and ESA
Did they ever make a K13GT? I thought they only did the GT with the 1200 engine (because it sold like dog turds).
Because they looked like a fridge with wheels. And R1200RT. I don't think a lot of BMW riders were ready for a transverse IL4.
The K12 engine is a peach though, power from any revs, I rode mine to work today and it never fails to impress me how effortlessly fast it is.
I remember when I first got the K, coming upon a guy on a B12 and his mate on a CBR1000F. They took off like scalded cats but the K annihilated them, its an extremely impressive motorcycle.
I love my R1150, and will happily ride it everywhere though. Its not fast, just "nice"
I’ve been tempted to swap my 36 yr old K100 for a K12 or 13 a few times but the old bus is so easy to maintain and I can strip the ugly fairing off for the summer without it looking too sad, apart from the hideous exhaust that is.
Yorick wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 12:19 pm
I suppose mine is similar. I saw a dyno graph where mine makes over 100 gee gees at a mere 6,000
Plenty of stomp.
Yes I reckon so. I don't think Suzuki did much to the GSXS except lop the top end off a K5. I'm guessing they gave it a little more midrange and changed the gearing but not much else.
I was chatting to a bloke on Sunday with the same bike as mine. He said he'd had it tuned/remapped with minimal changes I think to airbox, rev limiter and a full system/remap and went from 145 to 163. With no faring I don't think I'd bother and will spend the cash on suspension.
I'd be a bit wary of increasing the rpm it can rev to, the pistons in the GSXS range are cast, GSXRs are forged, cast pistons are weaker and heavier than forged pistons (they're also a lot cheaper)
I'd be a bit wary of increasing the rpm it can rev to, the pistons in the GSXS range are cast, GSXRs are forged, cast pistons are weaker and heavier than forged pistons (they're also a lot cheaper)
It's ok I don't mind if his blows up
I have no intention of tuning mine, it's got way more power than I need.
When I started this thread I was thinking of a sports bike with slightly more room to replace the rsv1000r I bought on a whim. Great bike but feels really small. I'm pretty sure that I'm going to go back and look at an rc8 for this job.
However on the way back from France I was thinking about what my options were. I'm somewhat suspicious of BMW bikes having had an 1150gs but if I put that on the list but potentially thinking of...
K12/1300
ZZR1400
VFR1200 (not the crosstourer)
...I may go to superbike factory at the weekend to see what they have. I still recall the blackbird was a long stretch to the bars and not that comfortable though. I'll see what feels right.
Le_Fromage_Grande wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 4:22 pm
Looking at the list above, try a Hayabusa.
The only thing I'd say is that while I want plenty of lazy power I don't need warp speed at the expense of comfort. There were guys heading back from Le Mans on busas at the weekend that looked bloody uncomfortable. I've never ridden one but they seem to have that air about them.
Not as uncomfortable as the guys with camping equipment strapped to their blades/r1s mind.
They stopped the K12 in 2008 and it became the K13 - never tried the 13 but I assume it was similar to the 12 in all respects only fasterer. The engine is marv (I had a twin cylinder bike as well ).
Oh, I forgot. Shaft drive ...and ESA
Did they ever make a K13GT? I thought they only did the GT with the 1200 engine (because it sold like dog turds).
Because they looked like a fridge with wheels. And R1200RT. I don't think a lot of BMW riders were ready for a transverse IL4.
The K12 engine is a peach though, power from any revs, I rode mine to work today and it never fails to impress me how effortlessly fast it is.
I remember when I first got the K, coming upon a guy on a B12 and his mate on a CBR1000F. They took off like scalded cats but the K annihilated them, its an extremely impressive motorcycle.
I love my R1150, and will happily ride it everywhere though. Its not fast, just "nice"
Yup, the K1200 is an amazing thing. It took me a long, long time to 'gel' with mine, but by the time I did, I realised that there was enough about it I didn't like, so swapped back to a Rockster.
Weirdly, the best bike I've owned for distance riding was a 1985 GSXR750, comfy seat and huge fairing, but I was a lot younger back then, the worst bike was a 98 R1, the seat was like a plank, so if I was looking for a distance bike my highest priority would be the seat, handlebars and foot pegs can be moved, and I'd rather tootle along at 80mph than 160mph these days.
Le_Fromage_Grande wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 4:48 pm
Weirdly, the best bike I've owned for distance riding was a 1985 GSXR750, comfy seat and huge fairing, but I was a lot younger back then, the worst bike was a 98 R1, the seat was like a plank, so if I was looking for a distance bike my highest priority would be the seat, handlebars and foot pegs can be moved, and I'd rather tootle along at 80mph than 160mph these days.
I used to be able to do the 4-6 hours to get to Lancaster from Newbury on my 2001 fireblade just stopping for fuel but I'm not sure that that's something I want to do on that sort of bike any more. The blade replaced a zx6r and one of the most comfortable bikes that I've ever had, a GPZ1100E1. It was a superb bike to do distance on.
...and ESA 