CBT Booked

[Bigyin]

Tigs, you shouldnt be turning your shoulders as that will make the bike unstable, just turn your head

Go back a couple of days for a post on this.

https://m.facebook.com/SurvivalSkills/? ... rrent.html

I am the least experienced instructor on this thread which i understand and accept as you and others have been doing it for years at an advanced level
....... but i am the only one who currently does CBT training day to day with complete riding novices and put through about 20 people a week on current CBT's with the current syllabus.

I am trying to help Tigs on what he is trying to get through on the next week or so and as i have said before on this thread trying to keep it simple for him. It really doesnt help him that every time he is given simple advice by me or others to get him through as Spin said " riding for 2 hours and getting back in one piece" that he is then linked to a report/ book/ article on how an advanced or differing theory of riding could possibly be applied to contradict it.

If i am wrong i'll stop posting on stuff like this and leave it to others

[Horse]

I am trying to help Tigs ...

If i am wrong i'll stop posting on stuff like this and leave it to others

Yes, Tigs' thread and a lot of what I've posted has been addressed directly to Tigs.

Some has been answering comments posted by others and explaining 'why', etc. That's the way threads often go.

Perhaps I've not made the distinction between the two obvious? It's a subject that I feel strongly about, including having been in contact with DSA many times, so perhaps go a bit overboard on it.

Tigs comes across as someone who thinks about stuff, so might appreciate information, but you're right that it can get too detailed.

That link to Spin's Fb was to emphasise not having tense grip on the bars. As with the Bret Tkacc video, etc.

[G.P]

Tigs, you shouldnt be turning your shoulders as that will make the bike unstable, just turn your head

Go back a couple of days for a post on this.

https://m.facebook.com/SurvivalSkills/? ... rrent.html

I am the least experienced instructor on this thread which i understand and accept as you and others have been doing it for years at an advanced level
....... but i am the only one who currently does CBT training day to day with complete riding novices and put through about 20 people a week on current CBT's with the current syllabus.

I am trying to help Tigs on what he is trying to get through on the next week or so and as i have said before on this thread trying to keep it simple for him. It really doesnt help him that every time he is given simple advice by me or others to get him through as Spin said " riding for 2 hours and getting back in one piece" that he is then linked to a report/ book/ article on how an advanced or differing theory of riding could possibly be applied to contradict it.

If i am wrong i'll stop posting on stuff like this and leave it to others

No, don't stop Yin.
Others need to learn that they don't need to reference all research on every aspect of every related topic, they just need to answer a question, and (again, IMO) if its already been answered helpfully, it doesn't need answering again.
I've picked up loads of great info and advice from Horse and Spin over the years, but if I was looking for a lot of the things mentioned in this thread, I certainly wouldn't be searching in "CBT Booked" for it!

[Horse]

Sadly, if it was in a thread titled 'things you need to know', its unlikely anyine would look

[G.P]

Sadly, if it was in a thread titled 'things you need to know', its unlikely anyine would look

Lol, good point

Mind you, why not start some - Counter steering, braking, road positioning, overtaking etc. Threads can then be referenced to when Q's come up?

[Yorick]

We all raced for donkeys years before we heard about counter steering.

[Horse]

Sadly, if it was in a thread titled 'things you need to know', its unlikely anyine would look

Lol, good point

Mind you, why not start some - Counter steering, braking, road positioning, overtaking etc. Threads can then be referenced to when Q's come up?

I probably will. With a title like 'The essential information graveyard '

[Horse]

We all raced for donkeys years before we heard about counter steering.

A few days ago, I saw an article about computer modelling of bike handling. The guy had contacted one of the grand prix riders as he wanted to model drifting the rear under power and how the rider gauged and controlled it? "Counter steering".

Now look what you have done - well OT!

[G.P]

This time next year tigs:



OK, I'll get me coat

[Tigs]

I'm enjoying your chat within the thread.. If someone were to search counter steering - I'm pretty sure the thread would pop up..

I do feel like i'm slowly getting my head around it all and I really do feel better prepped for my CBT (let's hope its not raining next week like it is today.. or that my 'waterproofs really are waterproof!'

I do think (it could be said I over think LOL )- but the thread has heightened my awareness... and I am enjoying the videos

[Tigs]

Tigs, you shouldn't be turning your shoulders as that will make the bike unstable, just turn your head and use your eyes to look where you want to be

I hear you.. I think when i was 'looking' i was looking at 10 o'clock.. rather than nearer to 7 (if you imagine a clock face and 12 is straight ahead) .. and your right - I dont' have to turn my shoulders to make the difference in my looking - but it is a 'bike turn' rather than a car glance.. i guess.. and to turn right i was looking at 2 oclcok.. when i needed to look nearer to 5 to do the figure 8... having watched videos I'm getting it!

Please keep posting it really has helped

I keep feeling my grip when i'm driving i'm resting rather than hanging on for grim life.. i'm also far smoother on my controls - rather than -trying to do everything super quick..

I'm really looking forward to my CBT - even though the weather is dire

[The Spin Doctor]

The only time I've ever had to "consciously input" CS is when at speed, and then not very often. Maybe this is why it is cbt exempt.

Doesn't mean you (and the police from N Wales who were also saying the same thing at that conference) aren't using it.

FWIW they now talk about it on BikeSafe, so presumably change of attitude.

[The Spin Doctor]

So:
1. Critical skills
2. Blame the trainers . . .

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/c ... 42/442.pdf

And DON'T tell instructors how they should teach counter-steering.

I suggested that giving trainers some advice on what and how counter-steering is and works, was the way forward and was told that the DSA's role was not to train, just to assess.

[The Spin Doctor]

I've seen the expression "positive steering" used instead of counter steering. I think it might have been in the IAM book, 'How to be a better rider'. Maybe that's a better expression, in the sense that 'counter steering' sounds complicated?

The term 'direct steering' was an attempt by the Superbike School and Keith Code to 'claim ownership' of the technique, as if it were something completely new. Much as I like most of what he does Code has a bit of a history of reinventing what people already know. Andy Ibbott who was the UK director at the time, put on a demonstration for the DVSA and they went away all excited about this 'new method' of steering bikes.

Since the DVSA approved the IAM for post-test training there had to be some alignment between them. That's possibly why.

Just for fun, it's also called 'push steering' in some places.

[The Spin Doctor]

I am the least experienced instructor on this thread which i understand and accept as you and others have been doing it for years at an advanced level
....... but i am the only one who currently does CBT training day to day with complete riding novices and put through about 20 people a week on current CBT's with the current syllabus.

I am trying to help Tigs on what he is trying to get through on the next week or so and as i have said before on this thread trying to keep it simple for him. It really doesnt help him that every time he is given simple advice by me or others to get him through as Spin said " riding for 2 hours and getting back in one piece" that he is then linked to a report/ book/ article on how an advanced or differing theory of riding could possibly be applied to contradict it.

If i am wrong i'll stop posting on stuff like this and leave it to others

C'mon... don't get the hump.

I would hope that Tigs can spot the difference between advice aimed at him, and answers to questions that expand on issues that have arisen from that advice.

[The Spin Doctor]

No, don't stop Yin.
Others need to learn that they don't need to reference all research on every aspect of every related topic, they just need to answer a question, and (again, IMO) if its already been answered helpfully, it doesn't need answering again.
I've picked up loads of great info and advice from Horse and Spin over the years, but if I was looking for a lot of the things mentioned in this thread, I certainly wouldn't be searching in "CBT Booked" for it!

But if we started a new thread for every question that arose, there would be dozens of threads with one or two posts in.

I think you have to credit the OPs with some sense... and generally speaking I'd say the advice here (and in SA on TRC and in SS on VD) has always been pretty solid. The main problems arose not come from advice from the instructors but when riders with no background in training started posting conflicting information.

[The Spin Doctor]

Mind you, why not start some - Counter steering, braking, road positioning, overtaking etc. Threads can then be referenced to when Q's come up?

I spent hours and hours doing just that on VD with help from a whole bunch of other people... I cross-referenced dozens of threads on all sorts of riding topics... then Magicaliarse took over, moved server and broke all the links. Just like that. No word of warning. One day it was the best resource for riders anywhere, the next pages of broken links.

I could have cried.

So I made a decision. My work is now on my websites.

There are 80-odd free articles here www.survivalskills.co.uk https://www.survivalskills.co.uk/rskills.htm

There's my Facebook page at www.facebook.com/survivalskills

My YouTube channel at www.youtube.com/survivalskillsuk including my new series of 60 Second Safety videos

And if that's not enough, I'm putting the entire back catalogue of FB posts (100 per year from 2014 onwards up on my www.ko-fi.com/survivalskills supporter site.

[Horse]

it's also called 'push steering' in some places.

In the 80/90s the MSF used 'push', but changed it to 'press'.

Possibly down to 'push' sounding more aggressive/dramatic action?

[Tigs]

Hello just a little update, I complete the CBT today.

The advice on here was really good - and I was a lot better at figure 8 and did ok on a u turn. My 'setting off' improved too.. so the stuff in the carpark was fine!

I found the day long, and my body aches (I'm sure I was far to 'grippy and tense.. but 'relaxed comes with practice right?)

The road stuff was more 'novice',. I don't look far enough ahead, and am still coordinating my left and right side, (I've always struggled with this).. I think I need to 'get out there' for shorter periods - where i'm fresher! The 'planning' part needs honing, so 'knowing which gear I should be in.. and what speed i should be going - and road position and the like..

But, I have the piece of paper to say i can go on the road, and that is the first step! I plan to go out with a friend who is a biker - and was pondering getting an earpiece so we can communicate with each other..

[Horse]

Well done!

A training colleague described the 'pass' standard of CBT as "wobble competently", so keep learning