SMARTening motorways

[The Spin Doctor]

I can access my handbook via the touch screen (there is a paper copy in the book pack too).

Cool! You can read it whilst driving

[KungFooBob]

I can access my handbook via the touch screen (there is a paper copy in the book pack too).

Cool! You can read it whilst driving

It reads Wikipedia articles about local points of interest out loud, I'll checked if it reads the manual to you too.

[The Spin Doctor]

It reads Wikipedia articles about local points of interest out loud, I'll checked if it reads the manual to you too.

You'll be telling me it does Fox News next...

[Mr. Dazzle]

Yeah they do News...not Fox though, some random organisation I've never heard of. Also shows you the weather on the Sat Nav map. Goes without saying you can ask the car "what's the weather like at home/my destination/anywhere you choose".

[Horse]

anywhere you choose

Your car

Somewhere random

My car's voice recognition

[Noggin]

All this middle console control stuff is a bit shit if you've got a spazzy arm on that side Depending on the day, I can't reach the hazard button with my right hand and have to lean across and use my left Not exactly ideal I don't remember older cars having having the hazard light button right in the middle of the car? I remember that button as being for the driver to press and so being closer to the driver!!! I guess that, if my memory is not tricking me and the button has moved it's a combination of access for all and not having to change so much when selling vehicles to the uk!!

TBF, this winter has been the first time I can actually change the controls (most days but not all) with my right hand. Motorbikes are much easier for this 'handicapée'!!!

[Mr. Dazzle]

In every car I can remember, including the two I own now, the hazards have been a largish red, physical button somewhere centre-ish on the dash.

Mrs D calls them the Taxi parking lights.

[Scootabout]

I guess that, if my memory is not tricking me and the button has moved it's a combination of access for all and not having to change so much when selling vehicles to the uk!!

I'm pretty sure the 'not having to change for the UK' is a factor with our Skoda. The handbrake is closer to the passenger than the driver, and the bonnet-opener lever is in the left hand footwell. Fortunately it's a good car in important respects.

[Noggin]

In every car I can remember, including the two I own now, the hazards have been a largish red, physical button somewhere centre-ish on the dash.

Mrs D calls them the Taxi parking lights.

I've always thought they were closer to the driver - but then, if I was sat int he right hand seat, maybe they would be!!

[The Spin Doctor]

In every car I can remember, including the two I own now, the hazards have been a largish red, physical button somewhere centre-ish on the dash.

Mrs D calls them the Taxi parking lights.

I seem to remember one where it was a button on top of the steering column, which meant poking a hand through the spokes of the wheel.

[Horse]

In the news today

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68848418

Claims that smart motorways tech leaves drivers at risk

The technology behind England's smart motorway network stops working on a regular basis, the BBC has discovered.

Figures obtained by Panorama have revealed hundreds of incidents when crucial safety equipment was out of action.


I think it's a fairly open secret that some of the tech hasn't been wonderful when working.

One point to note:

The worst problems were in the latest period ... there were 174 power outages - almost one a day.

The longest was at junction 14 on the M4, where there were no signals or sensors for 11 days.

J14 - if that's correct - isn't a 'smart' motorway. Normal 'D3+HS'. The only tech will be vehicle detection loops and, possibly, Variable Message Signs (I can't remember what's there).

Edit: VMS

20240422_090854.jpg (111.08 KiB) Viewed 2432 times

[Dodgy69]

I would imagine breaking down on a motorway "with" a hard shoulder to be quite scary, I'd be out of the car and behind the barrier pretty sharpish. With no hard shoulder, bloody frightening. Then in the dark, I dread to think.

So many shit drivers around these days, in touch screen cars, paying no care and attention to the road ahead.

[Supermofo]

Smart motorways just aren't really. They don't work.

Pretty much every time I'm going west on the M25 they'll be an assortment of variable speeds but they'll go something like
60
50
Blank screen - so some people go back to NSL others stay at 50
40
50
40
60

For those bottom 4 for example why not just have them all at 40 or 50. The constant changing means means you have to keep checking your speed meaning more time looking at speedo's/pressing cruise buttons than looking at what's going on. That's before dealing with drivers (vans more often than not) doing the speed limit under the gantry then back to as fast as possible chopping lanes left and right to get ahead.

And that's before the nonsense of having 40 mph speed limits when you are actually only doing 5 cos it's stop start traffic and you couldn't do 40 if you wanted.

As for lane closures, on the odd time I've come across one that seems to mean 70% of people try and get out of the closed lane when told. The other 30% actively get in that lane to get as far ahead as possible and cut in at the last second. A good portion of people only get out of the closed lane when they get to the blockage having driven through multiple lane closed signs.

The only difference I notice on Smart Vs non smart M'Ways is that on the Smart ones 95% of people are doing 70mph max cos of the threat of camera's.

[McNab]

Yesterday on the M3 I had a bit of a dilemma.

I was in my car heading home along the M3, J3 to J1 through the smart section and the dreaded signs turned on "obstruction on the carriageway" 40mph and lane 1 closed.
Everyone slowed down and we soon passed a refuge with a car and 2 highway authority vehicles with flashing lights on top. After this most people sped up again only for the next gantry to show the obstruction message again and a bit further on a car was stranded in lane 1.

Once past the stranded car, most people sped up again, but from then on, all the gantries were either blank or just had a message about an M25 junction being closed. They didn't show an all clear or the NSL sign, so as far as I was concerned it was still 40mph with lane 1 closed.
I tried to proceed on that basis, but quite frankly, I thought it was dangerous to drive at 40 with nearly everyone doing 70. I increased my speed to 50 along with a few other vehicles.

The gantries all remained blank for the rest of the variable limit section.

I've experienced this in the past where they reduce the limit and then the gantries are blank only for an NSL sign to be displayed 10 miles further down the road, but by this time everyone has decided the reduced limit must be over and are already doing 70.

What would you do in that situation?

Why don't they put the limit on all the gantries and make it clear when the reduction in speed is over?

[MrLongbeard]

What would you do in that situation?

Boot it, no displayed speed limit = standing limit of the road applies, e.g. 70MPH.
Well that's the standard what should happen answer, you have to allow for 'smart' motorways being not smart and a little bit shit into you decision making process, if the first next gantry has a blank sign but also has a camera I'll tend to stick to the lower limit, if no camera I'll increase my speed to the NSL.

[McNab]

Hmm, I've just googled it.

Webuyanycar site says if a gantry is blank then the NSL applies.

But almost everywhere else it states that a blank gantry indicates the previously posted limit still applies. National highways site also say this and also says the lower limit ends only when the NSL sign is displayed. I think the National Highways site is probably more accurate than WBAC.

[Mr. Dazzle]

I've always understood it to be last posted limit applies, as above. So if it said 40 and you've not driven past another speed limit or NSL sign, it's still 40. This is why they have permanent NSL signs after the last gantry.

Totally agree that system doesn't always work as intended and you're sometimes left wondering why you're doing 40 when everyone else is doing 70. But don't come crying to me if you get nicked

[MrLongbeard]

That's a surprise, ah well, my system has kept my license clean so far, even if highways says it's wrong.

Although I do wonder what the actual law is not just highways publicly stated opinion, if I came on to the M-way upstream from a reduced speed sign but in the middle of a load of signs turned off I'd be a might miffed if I received a NIP for sticking to the NSL.....

[Mr. Dazzle]

That's why they have the smaller matrix signs of the start of the slip road innit, t'aint just for fun.

P.S. Example of the actual law which applies here. Interesting that it only applies to the M4 in this example, I'm guessing the introduction of variable speed limits was done case by case using acts of parliament???

Also raises an interesting point/query about "joining in the middle". If you had a dashcam which proves you've not passed a posted limit maybe you'd be OK? But then again, my understanding is that dashcams don't actually count as evidence per se, they're just used to support eyewitness testimony, which is the real evidence.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/201 ... view=plain

Variable speed limits
3.—(1) No person shall drive a vehicle on a section of a road which is subject to a variable speed limit at a speed exceeding that indicated by a speed limit sign.

(2) A section of a road is subject to a variable speed limit in relation to a vehicle being driven along it if—

(a)the road is specified in the Schedule;

(b)the vehicle has passed a speed limit sign;

(c)the vehicle has not subsequently passed—

(i)another speed limit sign indicating a different speed limit; or

(ii)a traffic sign which indicates that the national speed limit is in force; and

(d)no speed restriction is in force by virtue of—

(i)an order or notice under section 14(4) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984; or

(ii)a traffic sign placed by a traffic officer pursuant to section 7 of the Traffic Management Act 2004(5).

[McNab]

Why can't they just display the reduced limit on all gantries in the effected stretch?

It can't be that hard can it? It starts here, ends there, all other gantries between get lit up.

I guess it's just another example of how smart motorways have been implemented in a piss poor way.