When does 'bants' become 'bullying'?

[westers151]

Nah, I don't get that for a second. You'd have to have skin as thick as rhino-hide and be as unobservant as a blind mole to genuinely not realise that you're being rude and offensive: In fact I just described the average Public School allumni.

I dunno, I've come across plenty of senior execs (admittedly in corporate US IT firms), who are "demanding". It's not that they don't care, it's because they are in a results driven world, and they need others to perform; touchy feely goes out the window, and they can become very direct and abrupt. I've not been in the armed services, however I can imagine that's a similar situation.

The trouble is, a lot of people can't handle the direct and abrupt style, and I can see why. If you're not used to it, it can appear to be rude, but it's not meant to be, however "abrupt" and "direct" can be done in a way that's not c**tish, but that's a very fine line, one that's often stepped over.

There's a difference between 'abrupt or direct', and 'offensive': some might see it a a big difference, some might see it as a subtle difference, but it's an important difference.

Agreed.

[cheb]

I have no hard data to back this claim up, but I feel like bullying accusations have bene levelled at politicians of all stripes in recetn times?

I'd agree with that, as badly spelt as it is. :deadpan:

Also the police, the fire and rescue service and a lot of NHS trusts both in England and Scotland. The torries being found guilty of it is obviously the final straw. Yet as I've said before, we forgive some celebrities when they do this and it seems to be a staple for the scripts of soap operas. Humans are so inconsistent.

I've certainly been guilty of it in the past, but also a recipient. The latter isn't much of a problem as I've got a very thick skin and a huge ego.

[Rockburner]

I have no hard data to back this claim up, but I feel like bullying accusations have bene levelled at politicians of all stripes in recetn times?

I'd agree with that, as badly spelt as it is. :deadpan:

Also the police, the fire and rescue service and a lot of NHS trusts both in England and Scotland. The torries being found guilty of it is obviously the final straw. Yet as I've said before, we forgive some celebrities when they do this and it seems to be a staple for the scripts of soap operas. Humans are so inconsistent.

I've certainly been guilty of it in the past, but also a recipient. The latter isn't much of a problem as I've got a very thick skin and a huge ego.

Actually - this is a good point - I wonder just how many people are unconsciously seeing the behaviour in things like soaps as examples of how to behave in real life? It's certainly a case with appearances - people will dress and emulate the 'look' of popular characters, so it's not a great leap to imagine that they might also emulate behaviours, good or bad (and since most behaviour in soaps leans towards the dramatic, bad behaviours are to the forefront).

[Horse]

Behaviour like that is just childish bullying and has no place outside of the nursery play-pen.

It's someone who seems to be building an empire by creating organisations with himself as head honcho.

Then shouting at anyone who he thinks is disagreeing with him because he thinks he is right.

Corrected that for you.

You haven't encountered him - he's always right

[irie]

There's a difference between 'abrupt or direct', and 'offensive': some might see it a a big difference, some might see it as a subtle difference, but it's an important difference.

In these days of increasing entitlement being "abrupt and direct" is more and more often seen as offensive, to the extent that bluntly stating scientific facts can cause offence.

[Cousin Jack]

It's my 'uman right to be offended innit bro.

[Horse]

It's my 'uman right to be offended innit bro.

I say, old chap, do you mean that it is your right to cause offense?

[Cousin Jack]

It's my 'uman right to be offended innit bro.

I say, old chap, do you mean that it is your right to cause offense?

No, But I do have the right to take offence at your silly question. You are disrespecting me.

[cheb]

I have no hard data to back this claim up, but I feel like bullying accusations have bene levelled at politicians of all stripes in recetn times?

I'd agree with that, as badly spelt as it is. :deadpan:

Also the police, the fire and rescue service and a lot of NHS trusts both in England and Scotland. The torries being found guilty of it is obviously the final straw. Yet as I've said before, we forgive some celebrities when they do this and it seems to be a staple for the scripts of soap operas. Humans are so inconsistent.

I've certainly been guilty of it in the past, but also a recipient. The latter isn't much of a problem as I've got a very thick skin and a huge ego.

Actually - this is a good point - I wonder just how many people are unconsciously seeing the behaviour in things like soaps as examples of how to behave in real life? It's certainly a case with appearances - people will dress and emulate the 'look' of popular characters, so it's not a great leap to imagine that they might also emulate behaviours, good or bad (and since most behaviour in soaps leans towards the dramatic, bad behaviours are to the forefront).

You don't have to sound quite so surprised

[demographic]

I work on building sites and generally we rip the piss out of most stuff, its all ebb and flow though and if we spot someone vulnerable we ease off.
Its expected that we get it back.
One company I sometimes work for has had a massive culture of bullying for 20 years+ (Mentioning no names Lambert Gill) and bullied one good lad out (Matt) and seems in the process of doing it with another good lad now.
Its one sided and corrosive, the current guy now second guesses his every move and they're making him a worse worker because of it.
I've ripped into a few of them about it and said what they're doing is bullying, plain and simple.
I'm fairly sure that as soon as I walk out the door it starts up again.
He's got an open invitation to the company I work for and I wouldn't give most of those feckless cunts the steam off my piss.
I guess he might be a bit institutionalized though.

Although I take the piss out of most things at work, I would be mortified if I did it with someone who genuinely took it to heart cos thats not what I'm about.

[Horse]

IME it's when it becomes one way, ie the 'receiver' either can't (for want of being able to respond quickly enough to make it 'fun'), or won't (for not being able to speak up to a senior, or not feeling like they are allowed to).

Years ago, I had a summer holiday job. A colleague was of diminutive stature. A supervisor regularly called him 'Samson'. Colleague wasn't comfortable with it, but didn't say anything.

I started calling the supervisor 'Delilah'.

He gave up the 'Samson' thing after a couple of days.

[wheelnut]

Like it or not dealing with employees is like walking on eggshells. You always need to take a breath before you speak, more so if you’re frustrated.

It doesn’t always come easy when you’ve been happier in fairly robust ways of doing things.

[Horse]

Like it or not dealing with employees is like walking on eggshells. You always need to take a breath before you speak, more so if you’re frustrated.

It doesn’t always come easy when you’ve been happier in fairly robust ways of doing things.

H's guide to managing staff includes:

- never ask people to do things that they don't want to do

That's the easy bit.

The difficult bit is making them want to do something

[Mr. Dazzle]

Is that the origin of the user name? Leading people and making them want to drink.

[Horse]

Is that the origin of the user name? Leading people and making them want to drink.

Well deduced!


But, sadly, totally wrong

[Horse]

"I'm picking on you first because I don't like you, then I'm going after the people who are actually causing a problem."

If you read that out in a transcript you could easily spin is as bullying.

"Dance like no-one is watching
Email like it's being read at a tribunal"

[Noggin]

Its one sided and corrosive, the current guy now second guesses his every move and they're making him a worse worker because of it.

I've had that a few times in the past, and, sadly this winter. Not so much bullying in that he didn't mean it (the most recent) to be bullying!

But when someone digs at you so much you lose confidence, your work totally suffers. And then they feel they have reason to dig at you more, which exacerbates the issue. I didn't have the bottle in the past to deal with it, and recently, didn't have enough confidence in my language skills.

But if someone can see it and at least try to make it stop, that's pretty awesome, because most people won't take that risk of putting themselves in a firing line

[demographic]

But if someone can see it and at least try to make it stop, that's pretty awesome, because most people won't take that risk of putting themselves in a firing line

There's pretty much nothing they can do to punish me, I go there and do my best to prodice a good product, as I do everywhere but if they don't like me and want rid, I get to go somewhere less toxic.
Consequently I don't really feel like I'm under any pressure to tell them what they want to hear.

A couple of the older guys I know (both decent blokes and neither has any time for bullys) have worked there and also mentioned things to the management.
Not sure how much hope I have for it to make a company with such a long history of it to change their ways.

As three of us have brought it up now and it keeps popping up I'm convinced its endemic.

[MyLittleStudPony]

[Horse]

going crying to my mum or to HR to fight my battles isn't in my DNA.
I take care of my own problems.

In my situation(and colleagues too), sorting it myself wasn't an option.

After trying to be polite, the eventual decision was to ignore them as their views were too entrenched. And we couldn't afford a hit man. *

* NB for the avoidance of doubt: employing a hit man was not considered.


However, see my Samson & Delilah example.