Not running KTM on super unleaded - will it cause damage?

[MyLittleStudPony]

I just realised I should have been running my KTM 390 on super unleaded. But I've been using normal.

Any idea if this will have caused problems? It's probably done getting on for 1000 miles on regular fuel.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

It won't cause any problems, just don't tell KTM.

[KungFooBob]

Depends if the engine has a knock sensor, I guess.

If it has, it should retard the ignition when it detects the pre-detonation.

If not, can you hear it knocking on the 95RON, if not, I wouldn't worry.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Did you just call the pony a retard?

[KungFooBob]

Did you just call the pony a retard?

I thought that was a given.

[Scud]

I just realised I should have been running my KTM 390 on super unleaded. But I've been using normal.

Any idea if this will have caused problems? It's probably done getting on for 1000 miles on regular fuel.

I thought it was more about the plastic tanks being prone to expanding with the higher ethanol content of e10. My Superduke gets what’s available when I need fuel

[dern]

What ron does it require? Some countries refer to super as different things. I’ve never used anything other than standard unleaded in any of my KTMs.

[Bigjawa]

My K12 has a sticker demanding its run on 98 octane that tou can't actually get here, I normally run it on 97 from Sainsburys but if I can't get there it gets plain 95. Which is fine according to BMW.....

[Mr. Dazzle]

Your K12 probably has a knock sensor though. My wife's old Civic Type R ran really differently on super, but that was a pretty highly tuned engine by car standards. It just changes the timing loads when it can tell you're running on lower octane fuel.

Does the 390 specify a RON pony or just say "super"? Super is a vague term and we're pretty fortunate that our "normal" is some other countries' "super".

The Bonnie will only run on Shell V power and the like (99 RON) but that's my fault for modifying it The knock sensor on that bike is entirely analogue...it's me.

[The Spin Doctor]

E10 fuel checker.jpg (53.09 KiB) Viewed 543 times

Source: https://check-vehicle-compatibility-e10 ... nufacturer

[Supermofo]

I initially read my 690 needed super but when I re read it I think it's cos some countries have really crap petrol and ours is fine. Having said that only needed about 10-11 litres at a time and high 50-low 60mpg easily got I found I used super 99% of the time. But that was when petrol was only expensive rather than bloody silly prices

[Scootabout]

My guess is if it doesn't pink, it's OK. I have/had the opposite problem with the V85TT. It's supposed to run on either E5 or E10, but has been pinking when hot with either fuel - a bit worse with E10. I'd been getting worried about it, and looking into solutions like booster plugs, aftermarket remaps, etc. Fortunately during the service it had the other day there was a manufacturer's map update, and early signs are that this has cured it. I need a few more rides in heavy traffic to be sure, but if it's sorted I'll probably switch back to E10 and save a few quid.

[MyLittleStudPony]

Your K12 probably has a knock sensor though. My wife's old Civic Type R ran really differently on super, but that was a pretty highly tuned engine by car standards. It just changes the timing loads when it can tell you're running on lower octane fuel.

Does the 390 specify a RON pony or just say "super"? Super is a vague term and we're pretty fortunate that our "normal" is some other countries' "super".

The Bonnie will only run on Shell V power and the like (99 RON) but that's my fault for modifying it The knock sensor on that bike is entirely analogue...it's me.

It says RON 95 in the manual. Googling suggests regular unleaded in the UK meets this. I think!

[KungFooBob]

IIRC the UK and US 'RON' ratings vary and can't be directly compared, however, UK 95 RON is regular and 98 and greater is considered 'Super'.

You should be running the 390 of a 50/50 mix of 98 RON and AVGAS.

[Mr. Dazzle]

My guess is if it doesn't pink, it's OK. I have/had the opposite problem with the V85TT. It's supposed to run on either E5 or E10, but has been pinking when hot with either fuel - a bit worse with E10. I'd been getting worried about it, and looking into solutions like booster plugs, aftermarket remaps, etc. Fortunately during the service it had the other day there was a manufacturer's map update, and early signs are that this has cured it. I need a few more rides in heavy traffic to be sure, but if it's sorted I'll probably switch back to E10 and save a few quid.

Interesting point on E10...or Ethanol in general.

Ethanol actually has way higher "octane" than petrol and provides much more effective cooling too. Its something like 110RON in its pure form. If you ran on pure ethanol you could crank the compression right up, run loads more turbo boost and remap the ignition. All big hitters for power and efficiency.

The problem with E5 and E10 is that the engines still have to be able to run on gasoline too so theyre not really taking advantage of what's possible Ditch the dino juice and you could supe the engine right up

The other problem is that it burns with invisible flames

[Scootabout]

Ethanol actually has way higher "octane" than petrol and provides much more effective cooling too.

You've got me a bit confused here. E10, with 10% ethanol, is 95 octane in the UK, and E5 - 5% or less ethanol - is 97 or 99. How come, if the ethanol is higher octane than the petrol/gasoline?

[Mr. Dazzle]

Ethanol by itself is higher RON. You can't buy that anywhere AFAIK but I feel like maybe you can/could in California at one point?

It's actually a common 'trick' of some of the supermarket premium petrol. Put ethanol in to raise the RON. Shell V Power and the like on the other hand is genuinely more octane-y.

I was pondering the other day why E10 is only 95RON. My guess is they actually use lower grade (hence cheaper) petrol for the bulk and then rely on the octane boosting properties of ethanol to bring it up to 95RON.

Ethanol in and of itself is less califoric than petrol, so all things being equal you'd get less mpg on ethanol. And indeed that's the case, all things generally are equal in road cars and you get worse mpg.

If you designed the engines to run on ethanol and only on ethanol you could crank the compression up loads and really boost the power/efficiency, more than enough to offset the loss in calorific value. Sadly engines have to be designed to run on either so that's not possible, so we're in the worst of both worlds.

Some race cars do run on ethanol though. Before anyone asks, the reason they don't in F1 is cause the rules say you have to use "pump" (heavy sarcasm on the quotes ) petrol.

[Count Steer]

Took me a while to get my head around the difference in RON and calorific value/energy content tbh.

Got there in the end.

[Horse]

Some race cars do run on ethanol though. Before anyone asks, the reason they don't in F1 is cause the rules say you have to use "pump" petrol.

Didn't they used to? Seem to remember pit crews doing the "I'm on [invisible] fire" dance.

[Mr. Dazzle]

That was indycar I believe...some form of oval racing anyway. They cut the fuel with a tiny amount of other stuff now so it burns with a visible flame.