15 Minute Cities

[MyLittleStudPony]

Textured insect protein and pooled low specification electric Renault Twangos. For the polluters.

[Mr. Dazzle]

I think there's some confusion here between paranoia, skepticism and cynicism. You don't want to land on a Venus fly trap but you also don't want to ignore all flowers either.

You could apply the "why would they do something good for you?" question to any 'social project' or organised function. Why do they build parks? Or fix potholes? Or mandate free at source education and paid holidays?

You make cities into 15 minute cities without forcing everyone to live in a judge Dredd tower block. Stay in the countryside if you prefer

[Mr. Dazzle]

Some people might not be able to live in the countryside once they’ve made personal transportation uneconomically viable to anyone that isn’t rich.

The reality is personal transportation is unsustainable. Even if you completely write off climate change arguments and the like the oil is still gonna run out etc.

So you can give everyone EVs. That argument never flies in certain crowds for some reason.

As I said on page one, for nearly all of human history personal transportation wasn't a thing. Mass adoption is within the memory of this forum, re: what Deftrap said.

Things will change whether we like it or not.

[weeksy]

Some people might not be able to live in the countryside once they’ve made personal transportation uneconomically viable to anyone that isn’t rich.

With bicycles both using pedal and E-power, i'm not sure it'll ever reach that status even if slightly more inconvenient for some. Those who choose to move to the countryside can always get to the civilisation if you choose.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Maybe the doctor could bicycle, with a little wicker basket on the front.

Bicycle clips optional.

[weeksy]

It will certainly be inconvenient and likely impossible for elderly and vulnerable people to MTB from their country cottage to the doctors in the nearest smart city.

I suppose they do have a choice, they can move or die.

Of course it will be... but that much less than now ? not really. When we reach that stage they'll be using flying drones for delivering shopping to the outlying members, virtual doctors, etc... We're talking 20+ years to even begin really... By that stage the world will be VERY different anyway.

[Mussels]

Some people might not be able to live in the countryside once they’ve made personal transportation uneconomically viable to anyone that isn’t rich.

With bicycles both using pedal and E-power, i'm not sure it'll ever reach that status even if slightly more inconvenient for some. Those who choose to move to the countryside can always get to the civilisation if you choose.

I don't think cycling is as cheap or easy as marketing has us believe. Ebikes and any reasonable bike will be above many people's budgets and more than they would pay for a car, a nasty budget bike is affordable but a pig to maintain.
When I used to cycle a few thousand miles a year the cost in time and parts to keep it on the road really surprised me.

[Mr. Dazzle]

One of my old colleagues, who to be fair was a serious cyclist, did all the sums and figured out 'fuel' alone cost more on a bike

I suppose they do have a choice, they can move or die.

What did they do in the past though?

Oh right, yeah, they died. Jolly civic minded of em if you ask me, keeps pension costs down

[DefTrap]

What did country people do 70s, and before, when private transport was limited or totally inaccessible?

Stayed and shopped local (or at least shopped at the local 'market town' which had effing everything)
Cycled, walked
Busses and trains

It's just a shift in mindset and a rebuild of infrastructure. Which of course takes time.
The coercion thing is only relevant to us old fuckers who've had a ball, wasted energy and polluted ourselves up the wazoo. The younger generations are much more environmentally aware and less selfish about it.

[Count Steer]

What's it got to do with the countryside? These are smart cities which aren't that different from the current ones really. In all the cities I've lived in there's been a doctors surgery, a supermarket, a park or other green space, restaurants, a tube/metro etc etc within 5 minutes walk, in a couple of cases there's been a hospital too. The main issue has been a 30+ minute drive to work if the tube/metro didn't go there.

The main issue is if they clamp down on cars without putting in either the infrastructure that means they're not so essential or if WFH doesn't maintain momentum.

Seems a lot of people that don't live in cities are complaining about living in cities.

[Mr. Dazzle]

The coercion thing is only relevant to us old fuckers who've had a ball, wasted energy and polluted ourselves up the wazoo. The younger generations are much more environmentally aware and less selfish about it.

Oxford is one of the places where this topic is actually playing out for real. I'm not sure of the exact details, but there've been some very recent changes to the town centre regarding car access etc.

Loads of my colleagues live in/around Oxford and it's pretty stark how the opinion line is drawn, tis pretty much by age.

[KungFooBob]

Teleporters will make this all moot anyways.

As a stop gap until they're invented just give everyone junior birdman rocket pants.

[cheb]

They're planning moots now? Time to buy shares in drawbridge manufacturing companies.

[DefTrap]

If it is genuinely all about cities (unlikely) then this is pointless - if you're middle class anyway. Of the people I know in cities, more than half don't have cars (rubbish parking, traffic, insurance). So this mainly impacts the blue collar busy beavers, keeping everything moving in their unmarked vans.

And me of course because now I won't be getting my daily Amazon delivery.

Boo. Down with progress.

[Saga Lout]

If people want 15 minute cities why don't they exist now?

They do, theyre called small cities.

And the people who want to live there can live there. If that's what the people want, that's what the people will choose. There's no need for legislation unless the plan is to force us all into a 15 minute city.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Legislation is needed even if only to maintain some semblance of co-ordination. That's why planning permission exists after all.

One example from the article...

Among the pioneers is the French capital. After Carlos Moreno introduced his concept in 2016, the mayor of Paris, Anne Hidalgo, presented it in her reelection campaign and began implementing it during the pandemic.

I.e. someone stood on the idea as part of their election campaign and subsequently got elected. How much of their campaign was it? I dunno. It's the same in Oxford AFAIK, the elected council did it and still got elected.

[Screwdriver]

Seems a lot of people that don't live in cities are complaining about living in cities.

That's the whole point from my perspective. I do happen to live in one and such projects are extremely unlikely to make things better. Resident parking was supposed to make things better, as were cycle lanes and speed cameras. All that happens is you come burdened by yet more legislation no doubt designed and implemented by people that don't have to endure the rules they dictate.

This 15 minute bollocks is just going to cost me more to merely exist and a shit ton more if I want to go anywhere and do anything.

[Count Steer]

Seems a lot of people that don't live in cities are complaining about living in cities.

That's the whole point from my perspective. I do happen to live in one and such projects are extremely unlikely to make things better. Resident parking was supposed to make things better, as were cycle lanes and speed cameras. All that happens is you come burdened by yet more legislation no doubt designed and implemented by people that don't have to endure the rules they dictate.

This 15 minute bollocks is just going to cost me more to merely exist and a shit ton more if I want to go anywhere and do anything.

I suppose it's all down to implementation and that, ie Oxford, is usually SNAFU. When I lived in 'that London' a parking permit scheme could have been because it was close to a couple of tube stations. People would drive in from the badlands, park up for the day and walk to the tube - if they got there early and could find a space. They could have given residents a free (ha ha) permit and ticketed the incomers. What would then have happened is that the commuters would try to move on to the next stations out, so they'd have to do the same. If the various local authorities cooperated on it, it might have worked but usually an authority is happy to dump the problem on someone else.

Same thing in Oxford. They solve a problem with traffic in one area by pushing it onto another...where the people complain about it. It's all way too granular.

[Mr. Dazzle]

What you need, is a plan

[KungFooBob]

Like any of this will matter when the AI Nanobot swarms destroy all life on earth.