SMARTening motorways

[slowsider]

the first to be hit

The irony !

[Horse]

https://highways-news.com/survey-sugges ... nderstood/

Research by Maru/Blue for the insurance comparison site GoCompare found 45% of drivers surveyed said they wouldn’t know what to do, while 52% of respondents were not aware that you can’t drive in a lane marked with a red ‘X’ or lanes that don’t display a speed limit.

Furthermore 76% of the 18 to 24-year-olds who were asked were unaware that you must keep to the speed limit displayed on the overhead gantries when driving on a smart motorway. This fell to just 26% of those aged 65 and over.

And

Ian McIntosh, CEO of RED Driving School. “The rollout of smart motorways could and should have been smoother, with a concerted effort to educate all drivers on what to do when they find themselves breaking down.

“While we can’t change what has happened in the past, there is an urgent need to deliver educational training"

Errr won't his company have had something to do with a few of those 18-24 year olds?

[The Spin Doctor]

It'll be the OTHER driving schools at fault.

I know there is some confusion about advisory and compulsory speed limits, and a few drivers are clearly unaware what a big red X means, but I personally have never heard that you "can't drive in lanes that don't display a speed limit" - isn't that the state of most motorway lanes when a limit is not in force?

[Mussels]

In cases like this I'd like to see the questions on the survey.
"Should you drive in the lane marked with 'X'"
will get very different results to
"Are you 100% certain you can't drive in a lane marked 'X'

I bet a large proportion of the 52% not aware that you can't drive in that lane would avoid driving in a lane marked 'X'.

[Lutin]

Government delays more all-lane smart motorways for five years

New "all-lane running" smart motorways have been paused while their safety is assessed, the government has said.

Using the hard shoulder as a permanent live traffic lane increases capacity, but critics say it has contributed to road deaths.

Five years of safety and economic data for the schemes will now be collected from the motorways built before 2020.

However, hard shoulders will not be reinstated on current stretches of all-lane running motorways.

The government's move comes after MPs said in November there was not enough safety and economic data to justify this type of route.

In the event that a car breaks down on all-lane running smart motorways, drivers are meant to aim for emergency refuge areas.

But critics say the schemes can leave cars stranded in fast-moving traffic.

[Lutin]

New smart motorway plans being scrapped

The building of all new smart motorways is being cancelled over cost and safety concerns, the government has announced.

Some 14 planned schemes, including 11 already on pause and three set for construction, will be scrapped due to finances and low public confidence.

And following on from that - Scrap all existing smart motorways, says AA

The AA has joined campaigners in calling for all existing smart motorways to be scrapped.

It comes after the government cancelled the building of all new smart motorways over cost and safety concerns.

Edmund King, president of the AA, told the BBC he welcome the government's move but that it needed to go further and restore a permanent hard shoulder to 375 miles of existing smart motorways.

"Basically drivers don't trust them, the technology is not fool proof, and 37% of breakdowns on smart motorways happen in live lanes. And basically those drivers are sitting ducks."

The RAC meanwhile said existing smart motorways - which make up about 10% of England's motorway network - now had to be made "as safe as possible".

Common sense at last?

[Horse]

Scrap all existing smart motorways, says AA

The AA has joined campaigners in calling for all existing smart motorways to be scrapped.

Edmund King, president of the AA, told the BBC he welcome the government's move but that it needed to go further and restore a permanent hard shoulder to 375 miles of existing smart motorways.

Common sense at last?

Contrary to other views, it might not be just a case of 'paint solid lines'. I imagine that junction layouts will need rework, along with signing. And probably GPS too, that often gives illustrations of lanes. ... And wait for the complaints about roadworks & closures to do the work.

Also expect hard shoulder collisions from "I didn't know it had changed" drivers? There's been enough Red X compliance problems to hint at that.

[The Spin Doctor]

Contrary to other views, it might not be just a case of 'paint solid lines'. I imagine that junction layouts will need rework, along with signing. And probably GPS too, that often gives illustrations of lanes. ... And wait for the complaints about roadworks & closures to do the work.

Also expect hard shoulder collisions from "I didn't know it had changed" drivers? There's been enough Red X compliance problems to hint at that.

Where existing conversions to SMART motorways are more than 3/4 complete, the work will be finished.

Otherwise part-finished schemes will revert. Frankly, given the slow pace of the conversions on the roads I've been using, I suspect the roadworks necessary to reinstate the hard shoulder will go rather faster than finishing the job, which should ease congestion significantly on some stretches.

On the issue of going going backwards from a completed SMART section to hard shoulder... some observations...

1) converting everything back to a hard shoulder will need a fair amount of remedial work - but I don't think it will be on anything like the scale that was needed to convert it in the first place. Essentially, all the gantries and cameras can be left, the upgrading of the surface that was needed to support trucks rather than broken down vehicles won't need to be reversed either, and the refuges can stay. I'm guessing it'll mostly be changing the signing overhead, and repainting markings.

2) The lane feature on sat-navs... interesting one, because of course if it's a standalone system that's not updated, it'll be out of date even before the car is delivered. The issue really is whether or not it can be updated - I plug Open Street Map project maps into my own Garmin rather than pay for expensive upgrades every year or two, and frankly, there ought to be some legislation that forces free upgrades. I gather that data on speed limits etc is now supplied very rapidly to the likes of Waze.

3) Will drivers forget not to drive down the hard shoulder? Well, you can't mitigate for everyone but frankly, the risk of getting it wrong and driving down it and encountering a stopped vehicle is going to be rather less than the risk of being in a live running lane and encountering the same stopped vehicle that didn't make it to a refuge. In any case, there are still far more miles on dumb motorway so I think most of us will go back to the old ways pretty quickly

[Horse]

Frankly, given the slow pace of the conversions

Having been involved (in an 'indirect' way) with several of these conversions (M1 x2, M3, M4), I'm aware of some reasons why they didn't always go smoothly.

Couple of examples are:
- plans for existing roads being incorrect or non-existent. Unmapped drains for one.
- difficulties constructing barriers. In one instance, the mway was on a bridge that was actually 2 bridges (1 per carriageway) side by side - with a gap where concrete barrier foundations needed to be.

I'd be interested to hear where you think time was wasted.

[Supermofo]

Too late in the South East, most of the M'ways there are smart already and I can't see them unwinding them. Plus M25 in spots is a car park daily with 4 lanes, going back to 3 will only make it worse.

[The Spin Doctor]

I'd be interested to hear where you think time was wasted.

I said 'slow'... not wasted.

But since you ask... mile upon mile of closed lanes where absolutely NOTHING is happening... no overtime, no weekend working... one bloke with a spade, ten with clipboards...

I appreciate that people have to be supervised, tasks have to follow in sequence, and that if there's a plan it's always going to be that something happens that wasn't planned for (not surprised by the unmarked drains, rather more surprised no-one realised the bridge was dualled) but there's always slippage built-in.

And I know too that concrete needs to cure, but vast stretches of motorway were closed for weeks, if not months, before ANY construction work started along those zones. There was a government report about it... oh, maybe 15 years ago which recommended that the works be carried out over shorter stretches.

[The Spin Doctor]

Too late in the South East, most of the M'ways there are smart already and I can't see them unwinding them. Plus M25 in spots is a car park daily with 4 lanes, going back to 3 will only make it worse.

Not necessarily. People make journeys based on how convenient it is to travel, not how necessary it is. When they built the M25 around Watford / Rickmansworth, the traffic flow was way above expected... what they found was that it was just a little quicker to drive out to the motorway, around it and back in the other side than it was to drive directly between the towns. And because it was easier, more drivers made journeys they would otherwise have put off or combined.

One simple solution for peak hours would be to restrict HGVs overtaking (it's standard practice elsewhere), and restricting them to just two lanes at all other times... many of the build-ups in moving traffic happen when you get truckers playing lorry tag, even across three of four lanes. Bonkers.

[Supermofo]

One simple solution for peak hours would be to restrict HGVs overtaking (it's standard practice elsewhere), and restricting them to just two lanes at all other times... many of the build-ups in moving traffic happen when you get truckers playing lorry tag, even across three of four lanes. Bonkers.

Yes annoys the hell out of me that does when you see lorries in Lanes 1-3 at 50 mph

[Horse]

I'd be interested to hear where you think time was wasted.

I said 'slow'... not wasted.

Interesting distinction.

There was a government report about it... oh, maybe 15 years ago which recommended that the works be carried out over shorter stretches.

And it's been looked at more recently, certainly talked about within the last 5-8 years.

Options have included shorter overall sections and working on one side only (contraflow). IIRC the outcome would be more disruption (longer duration) for road users.

Re nothing happening, that's inevitable. I think that you seriously underestimate the amount of work involved in altering the timetable or removing works. It can't be done on a whim.*

20230417_161408.jpg (872.27 KiB) Viewed 950 times

For example, to revert this to 'normal' (AKA D3M+HS) would require at least:
- Temporary steel barriers (or concrete), which are often 'pinned' to the road, removed from site
- Temporary lane markings removed
- New lane markings installed
- Signing altered (at start, end, and throughout)
That work would require a full weekend closure. Then repeat to reinstall for further work to start.

Or did you mean 'throw more money at it'? Can't see any issues with that, or getting staff who want to work 24/7 shifts, can you?

* Hey, chaps, we've managed to claw back some time, so could you reschedule the full closure for bridge demolition a week earlier?

[Horse]

NB during conversions, there's typically a couple of weeks where, to the travelling public, it will look as if nothing is happening, with lane 1 coned off. This is the technology commissioning phase. Essential work, but 'invisible'.

[Horse]

One simple solution for peak hours would be to restrict HGVs overtaking (it's standard practice elsewhere)

Here's one example:

20230417_163648.jpg (134.05 KiB) Viewed 944 times

[The Spin Doctor]

Here's one example:

Should be more like that... mind you, not a motorway... A34?

[The Spin Doctor]

That work would require a full weekend closure.

As opposed to how many months to do the conversion???

[Horse]

That work would require a full weekend closure.

As opposed to how many months to do the conversion???

Actually two weekends, one to remove it all* and another to install it again for work to recommence.

There are a finite number of weekends**. Plus, if they reached an appropriate point on Mon-Thurs they would still have to wait until the weekend anyway. Unless you're advocating equivalent closures mid-week?

* Always assuming that the site is suitable. If there's no central barrier, or the road surface isn't complete, etc., it wouldn't be possible anyway.

** 'Embargoes' are imposed at Easter & Christmas to New Year to remove as many works as possible.


However, if you have practical suggestions on how to speed up delivery of works, I'll happily pass them on.

[Cousin Jack]

Slightly off-topic but related. If the idiots driving cars in the UK would actually LOOK at the road we could probably manage with smaller (and cheaper) lane closures.

A30, earlier this week. Road crew cleaning up the edge just off the carriageway (the road had a sort of 1/4 width hard shoulder). 2 blokes on foot and a truck doing the work. Preceded by a big fcuk-off 'Flashing arrow' truck, preceded by TWO smaller inside lane closed trucks. That was about a 1 mile rolling (very slowly) closure for a 10 yard stretch of roadworks.

I know why it is necessary, but if drivers would only actually look ahead most of it would be totally unnecessary