Should America grow up and seriously restrict gun use/ownership?

[Cousin Jack]

Dictators never like guns in the hands of Joe Public. One of Hitler's first actions was to require all guns to be registered, after that they were restricted to his own supporters, Nazi Party members.

So are we saying that the uk gov are dictators, or is it a not mutually exclusive thing?

No, I don't think that the UK governments have all been dictators, however I do see why an American citizen might quite like to keep his 2nd Amendment rights to own a gun. If I were a US citizen living in the USA I would have a gun, and would fight (politically) to keep it. I would accept reasonable safeguards, like training, safe keeping, etc, but not a ban.

As an aside, most of the anti-gun people on here probably do not realize that government panic after the Russian rebellion of 1918 was the reason we have draconian gun laws in the UK, and present day law can be traced directly back to the 1920 Firearms Act. The (documented but not publicly stated) objective at that time was to restrict pistols (seen as an assassins weapon) and to register everything else so that, if a UK rebellion occurred, the 'right' people could have guns but the bad ones would have them confiscated.

[wheelnut]

, if a UK rebellion occurred, the 'right' people could have guns but the bad ones would have them confiscated.

That’s one way of looking at it.

A more pragmatic reason would be the prevalence of handguns coming back from WW1 at a time of a fair amount of civil unrest in the UK. The Russian revolution may have been one factor in the government’s thinking but I don’t believe it was the main reason. Maybe they were unusually prescient and have managed to avoid the situation the US finds themselves in today?

There were attempts to introduce more restrictive gun laws before the war due to a fair few high profile murders using, what were at the time, freely available handguns.

[Cousin Jack]

, if a UK rebellion occurred, the 'right' people could have guns but the bad ones would have them confiscated.

That’s one way of looking at it.

A more pragmatic reason would be the prevalence of handguns coming back from WW1 at a time of a fair amount of civil unrest in the UK. The Russian revolution may have been one factor in the government’s thinking but I don’t believe it was the main reason. Maybe they were unusually prescient and have managed to avoid the situation the US finds themselves in today?

There were attempts to introduce more restrictive gun laws before the war due to a fair few high profile murders using, what were at the time, freely available handguns.

The war souvenirs were certainly a factor, as were the high profile murders, but as I understand it, from an acquaintance who researched the history of UK firearms law, is that Home Office papers released under the old 50 year rule, suggested that the Russian revolution was the driving factor. I haven't seen the papers myself, but have no reason to doubt his word. I believe he got a PhD for it.

Undoubtedly this was a major factor in avoiding the UK going down the US wormhole. Banning guns in the US is virtually impossible, too many unregistered ones in circulation, and a high proportion of citizens not inclined to obey any law requiring them to be registered. They have a problem, but banning stuff won't fix it. You only have to look at the UK handgun ban and today's crime statistics to realize that, whilst it took large numbers of guns out of circulation, it took them from the law abiding citizens. Criminals take no notice of laws, and the argument that legal guns feed into the illegal pool is pure tosh, the figure just don't support it.

[Ant]

That reminds me of that 'SAS Hero' who was banged up for being in possession of a prohibited firearm, which was a 'war souvenir'. There was uproar from some people who suggested that he should be able to keep hold of a firearm under his bed which no one can get a licence for.

[Bigjawa]

The war souvenirs were certainly a factor, as were the high profile murders, but as I understand it, from an acquaintance who researched the history of UK firearms law, is that Home Office papers released under the old 50 year rule, suggested that the Russian revolution was the driving factor. I haven't seen the papers myself, but have no reason to doubt his word. I believe he got a PhD for it.

Undoubtedly this was a major factor in avoiding the UK going down the US wormhole. Banning guns in the US is virtually impossible, too many unregistered ones in circulation, and a high proportion of citizens not inclined to obey any law requiring them to be registered. They have a problem, but banning stuff won't fix it. You only have to look at the UK handgun ban and today's crime statistics to realize that, whilst it took large numbers of guns out of circulation, it took them from the law abiding citizens. Criminals take no notice of laws, and the argument that legal guns feed into the illegal pool is pure tosh, the figure just don't support it.

I read somewhere that the gun violence in the Irish republic was mostly guns from the former Eastern Bloc, they seem to be able to get unlimited supplies of the bloody things, from pistols right up to DShK's, all ex military and for reasonable money. It's only amateurs that steal guns. The really bad guys just buy them in with less hassle.

[Screwdriver]

Dictators never like guns in the hands of Joe Public. One of Hitler's first actions was to require all guns to be registered, after that they were restricted to his own supporters, Nazi Party members.

Interestingly, after declaring war on terrorists/homophobes/transphobes <basically how they refer to Republicans/Trump supporters> Biden decided to hire 100,000 more IRS agents to "go after" the enemy. Interesting because he has also decided to arm them. Will also be interesting to see who they go after first - after they've finished with Matt Taibbi.

Surprised they didn't go "all in" and arm their Antifa/BLM allies (the paramilitary wing of the Biden admin a.k.a. Brownshirts) instead of merely refusing to arrest them - for anything!

[Mr. Dazzle]

Biden decided to hire 100,000 more IRS agents to "go after" the enemy.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.c ... ening.html

[Horse]

Surprised they didn't go "all in" and arm their Antifa/BLM allies (the paramilitary wing of the Biden admin a.k.a. Brownshirts)

Wow.

https://www.oxfordreference.com/display ... 0in%201921.

Member of an early Nazi paramilitary organization, the Sturmabteilung or SA (‘assault division’). The Brownshirts, recruited from various rough elements of society, were founded by Adolf Hitler in Munich in 1921. Fitted out in brown uniforms

[Cousin Jack]

Biden decided to hire 100,000 more IRS agents to "go after" the enemy.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.c ... ening.html

Don't go bringing facts to a conspiracy party.

[DefTrap]

Interestingly, after declaring war on terrorists/homophobes/transphobes <basically how they refer to Republicans/Trump supporters> Biden decided to hire 100,000 more IRS agents to "go after" the enemy. Interesting because he has also decided to arm them. Will also be interesting to see who they go after first - after they've finished with Matt Taibbi.

Surprised they didn't go "all in" and arm their Antifa/BLM allies (the paramilitary wing of the Biden admin a.k.a. Brownshirts) instead of merely refusing to arrest them - for anything!

You've started early.

Drifting from fact to opinion to slander.

[Mr. Dazzle]

If you wanna do slander you could point out IRS audit rates dropped significantly during Trump's presidency. Nothing to do with Trumps hmm...complicated...financial affairs and business contacts I'm sure. Probably because he's such a financial criminal he wanted to defang the institution which would come after him when he left.

See how easy it is to make shit up based on some esoteric facts?

[Cousin Jack]

You've started early.

Drifting from fact to opinion to slander.

Drifting? That implies a slightly slower progress. This is a full throttle charge.

[Ant]

Trump 2024

[demographic]

Dictators never like guns in the hands of Joe Public. One of Hitler's first actions was to require all guns to be registered, after that they were restricted to his own supporters, Nazi Party members.

Interestingly, after declaring war on terrorists/homophobes/transphobes <basically how they refer to Republicans/Trump supporters> Biden decided to hire 100,000 more IRS agents to "go after" the enemy. Interesting because he has also decided to arm them. Will also be interesting to see who they go after first - after they've finished with Matt Taibbi.

Surprised they didn't go "all in" and arm their Antifa/BLM allies (the paramilitary wing of the Biden admin a.k.a. Brownshirts) instead of merely refusing to arrest them - for anything!

Are you getting your talking points off the wheel of distraction, we've had the Hunter Bidens Laptop, Antifa, and I'm fairly sure there's beena few more.
[media] [/media]
Its reading like Fox News bud.

[wheelnut]

Interestingly, after declaring war on terrorists/homophobes/transphobes <basically how they refer to Republicans/Trump supporters> Biden decided to hire 100,000 more IRS agents to "go after" the enemy. Interesting because he has also decided to arm them. Will also be interesting to see who they go after first - after they've finished with Matt Taibbi.

Surprised they didn't go "all in" and arm their Antifa/BLM allies (the paramilitary wing of the Biden admin a.k.a. Brownshirts) instead of merely refusing to arrest them - for anything!

Come on Screwd - you’re better than this. These things aren’t difficult to check the facts on.

[Ant]

Yeah come on screwd, get off the track which the left don't like to talk about.

[Screwdriver]

Biden decided to hire 100,000 more IRS agents to "go after" the enemy.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.c ... ening.html

Don't go bringing facts to a conspiracy party.

Are you getting your talking points off the wheel of distraction, we've had the Hunter Bidens Laptop, Antifa, and I'm fairly sure there's beena few more.

Come on Screwd - you’re better than this. These things aren’t difficult to check the facts on.

OK. What the actual fuck?

Mr. Dazzle points to a post that confirms it's 87,000, I said 100k (new, armed, IRS agents) and you gather round like a flock of mindless sheep, nibbling at me.

For fucks sake. WAKE UP! My point stands AND I bet my bottom dollar, it won't be Democrat voting states that get the brunt of this "crackdown".

As for you Demo, the Hunter Biden laptop is genuinely his laptop. It genuinely has a ton of info in it which genuinely led to a document trail proving the Biden mafia have been paid $MILLIONS by the CCP - though in fairness, we don't know what for (yet). However the CCP involvement at the University of Pennsylvania also by coincidence happens to be where Biden inexplicably held a ton of classified documents and through which, the CCP also pay him via the "Penn Biden Centre".

Can't you chaps think for yourselves? Do you just mindlessly believe everything the mainstream media tells you? Can you not see corruption when it's right in front of you?

Trump is being hounded by some fucking mayor for paying off a hooker back in 2016. During that period, the Biden mafia were raking in millions form a corrupt Ukraine before turning the entire country into a clusterfuck and costing us all a fortune in energy price rises. His son, a drug addled crack smoking sex maniac is also paid millions by the CCP. For what? An entire laptop full of incriminating evidence is discovered and not a fucking peep out of the mainstream, let alone the entirely partisan FBI who buried it for years while suggesting "Russian disinformation.

Honestly, sometimes I wonder if people are deliberately looking the other way otherwise I would have to conclude you're not looking at all.

[Screwdriver]

@wheelnut what "facts".

The fact that it is merely 87,000 IRS agents?
The fact that Hunter Bidens laptop reveals a ton of incriminating evidence.

Which "facts" do you dispute or are you just mindlessly following the herd?

[wheelnut]

It’s an uplift of IRS funding/employees over the next 10 years, to both bolster their investigation ability and replace a workforce that is losing a lot through natural wastage.

HMRC is doing similar - and it must be working as I’ve just had a vat inspection.

[demographic]

The tax office being properly funded is a good thing (well, generally) cos it lessens fraud.
Got no problem with it.
The IRS has been chronically underfunded for years.