Energy bills

[mangocrazy]

I can't see any compelling reason to go 'smart' at the moment, and enough to make me stay put with dumb meters. YMMV, of course.

[Yambo]

Even if you've got a smart meter you can still tell the companies your meeting readings 'the old fashioned way'? My meter cupboard still has numbers in it.

The old fashioned way and considerably better way (IMHO of course) is for the energy companies to send an employee round to read meters on a regular basis and then bill you for what you've used.

I'm not a technophobe by any means but employing more people, taking a curate readings, billing accordingly and not requiring customers to use your company as a somewhat poor savings bank tops the technology in my mind.

My electric and water metres are read every month and my bank pays the bills automatically. If there's a problem I can talk to a person and it'll be investigated and sorted. It may be old fashioned but it works very well.

[Count Steer]

There's a few moving parts here. The initial push for smart meters was driven simply by the technology becoming available/usable and the desire to reduce metering costs. Feet on the ground costs money. Same thing with prepayment meters - no need to send people that you have to train and pay out to risk their necks emptying meters and carrying cash around.

The idea of building a better supply-demand balance was just a twinkle in the eye of a few people at the time. The idea was there but not a real driver.

They were still supposed to send someone to eyeball the meter for safety and anti-theft purposes at stipulated intervals. (When was the last time that happened?).

The idea that you could vary the rate depending on the demand (and, possibly, the retailer falling short on their supply contracts) followed as the installed base grew and the metering technology improved. (We sourced the first ones from a little outfit in Slovenia).

I lived and worked through all of this, knew the people involved in setting up one of the first dedicated independent metering companies, Lowri-Beck (and even how the company got the name). Pitched a smart solution to the Port of Antwerp who had a big property portfolio and wanted to tie in the property renters to their supply (which they could do as part of the deregulation of energy supply). They have some heavy users and wanted to bill on a very dynamic basis. Talked to the regulatory boss, industry bodies etc etc. Worked for a company that supplied a modular IT solution for new suppliers entering the market, including stuff like electricity companies (even a water company!) that wanted to go multi-fuel and sell gas.

The only political aspect in the UK was the drive to encourage switching and get more independent players in the market and dismantle monopolies. (That worked well eh? ).

It's all perfectly logical. No conspiracy required. Probably the sketchiest person involved in it was me.

(And, no, I'm still not having one! But that's nothing to do with anything other than I don't need one and don't see the point in making my domestic infrastructure more technically complex/fallible when I see little personal benefit).

[Cousin Jack]

My electric and water metres are read every month and my bank pays the bills automatically. If there's a problem I can talk to a person and it'll be investigated and sorted. It may be old fashioned but it works very well.

Yebut you live in a 'backward' country that isn't really part of Europe, so we couldn't possibly admit your methods are better than ours.

[Cousin Jack]

............... Probably the sketchiest person involved in it was me.

Can we please have an official lynching? The culprit had admitted guilt, we just need a rope and a tree.

[Count Steer]

............... Probably the sketchiest person involved in it was me.

Can we please have an official lynching? The culprit had admitted guilt, we just need a rope and a tree.

A rope AND a tree? Luxury!

Actually, there was someone sketchier. A Belgian 'industrialist', incredibly wealthy, who saw an opportunity to get involved in a bit of a growth area. His best line was, 'I am not a crook! Well, not any more'.

[Mussels]

Looks like things are expected to improve soon.

Ovo launches energy deal below government price cap

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65080014

[Mr. Dazzle]

Did my first "Saver Session" on Octopus yesterday. They give you £3 back for every unit of leccy you don't use (compared to your average) between 18:30 and 19:30.

Still waiting to see how I did!

The numbers are in!

I reduced my energy consumption by 92% in the saving session. Which equates to half a kWh . Earned me £1.31 in refund.

This is the problem, I'm quite efficient anyway, so a 92% reduction on not very much is......

[Kneerly Down]

It does look like it's a form of relatively cheap market research for them.
So, £3 per unit meant you used 92% less.
Are they going to do e.g. £2, £1, etc per unit back, to see what the elasticity of demand is?

[Kneerly Down]

Looks like things are expected to improve soon.

Ovo launches energy deal below government price cap

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65080014

If the price cap came down at the end of June to below the Ovo fix, it'd still be worth it on paper for me to swtich and then take the exit fee hit to come out of it. Trouble is, it's hassle, so not just a spreadsheet game. It should mean I'd get my £1500 credit balance back from Octopus though.

[irie]

Looks like things are expected to improve soon.

Ovo launches energy deal below government price cap

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65080014

If the price cap came down at the end of June to below the Ovo fix, it'd still be worth it on paper for me to swtich and then take the exit fee hit to come out of it. Trouble is, it's hassle, so not just a spreadsheet game. It should mean I'd get my £1500 credit balance back from Octopus though.

Our 2 year fixed deal with Shell Energy expires in September 2023, so with OVO perhaps acquiring Shell's domestic energy business September could be interessssting ...

[Mr Moofo]

Any big solar users out there ?
I am about to get a non battery set-up fitted - but would like to run it past someone who is a current user and actually knows what it is like to live with

[irie]

Had 4kW solar array since 2012, no problems or maintenance since. Try to run washing machine and dishwasher when it's sunny and the electricity's free.

[Mr Moofo]

@irie that'll be about the size of mine
Will PM you later

[Pirahna]

I sort of run my house on 3.6kw of panels and 9.6kwh of batteries, I have no grid electricity. I cook using bottled gas. In winter I heat water with bottled gas, I switched over to the electric water heater about a month ago. I have all the usual household appliances, dishwasher, washing machine etc, as Irie says, use them in the daytime when there's plenty of electricity, not off the batteries at night.

I'm in Spain which is a bit of an advantage. If I were in the UK and looking for a similar off grid experience I'd be looking for a property which had water to run a water wheel or permission for a couple of windmills.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Advice so far seems to be "use your solar panels in the daytime".

Honestly, I'm shocked.

[Kneerly Down]

My BiL has just paid £1500 to have netting to stop birds nesting under the panels. Apparently it's a big issue they didn't think of 10 years ago.
Obviously it'd be a lot less if it were installed when they put the panels up in the first place...think by far the largest part of the cost was scaffolding.

[mangocrazy]

My BiL has just paid £1500 to have netting to stop birds nesting under the panels. Apparently it's a big issue they didn't think of 10 years ago.
Obviously it'd be a lot less if it were installed when they put the panels up in the first place...think by far the largest part of the cost was scaffolding.

I'm interested to know what Bad Thing happens when birds nest under your solar panels? When we're in France my cat regards the solar panels to be an excellent way to get out of the hot sun while still having a good view of the surrounding roofs. I imagine he'd be quite chuffed if he found any birds lollygagging around up there...

[Mussels]

My BiL has just paid £1500 to have netting to stop birds nesting under the panels. Apparently it's a big issue they didn't think of 10 years ago.
Obviously it'd be a lot less if it were installed when they put the panels up in the first place...think by far the largest part of the cost was scaffolding.

I'm interested to know what Bad Thing happens when birds nest under your solar panels? When we're in France my cat regards the solar panels to be an excellent way to get out of the hot sun while still having a good view of the surrounding roofs. I imagine he'd be quite chuffed if he found any birds lollygagging around up there...

Apart from vermin issues bird poo is acidic and if rain doesn't wash it away it could cause problems over a few years.

[Mussels]

I've been looking at solar panels again but when doing the numbers it's obvious the government is trying to discourage them, sticking the daily rate right up to keep the KWh rate down makes them less attractive.
To get the most bang for buck I'm thinking of a 2KW array on my garage roof without batteries, I'll use most of the power they produce and can do it all DIY as I don't need a roofer or bother with the FIT.