Wossname wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:36 pm
Yay! GoFundMe seems to have come up with some of what's needed. I'd like to think that those who want road racing to continue will recognise that they need to support it financially as well as with their enthusiasm. We'll see...
Some business bloke from Tyrone came up with the majority of the cash. I wonder what pound of flesh he'll want in return?
The last paragraph is telling. As well as where the coroner says it’s a miracle no spectators were killed or injured (pretty much the same as solos but hey ho)
Maybe sidecars need to be concerned about the IoM as well?
Scotsrich wrote: ↑Mon Mar 20, 2023 11:09 am As well as where the coroner says it’s a miracle no spectators were killed or injured (pretty much the same as solos but hey ho)
One of the flying Dr videos includes where a solo went through gardens and spectators.
The last paragraph is telling. As well as where the coroner says it’s a miracle no spectators were killed or injured (pretty much the same as solos but hey ho)
Maybe sidecars need to be concerned about the IoM as well?
I had to read that last paragraph twice for that to sink in, and I'm still sitting here with an incredulous look on my face about the fact that they've only just introduced MOT style checks in scrutineering. What did they do before - kick the tyres and make sure it wasn't leaking oil?
The last paragraph is telling. As well as where the coroner says it’s a miracle no spectators were killed or injured (pretty much the same as solos but hey ho)
Maybe sidecars need to be concerned about the IoM as well?
I had to read that last paragraph twice for that to sink in, and I'm still sitting here with an incredulous look on my face about the fact that they've only just introduced MOT style checks in scrutineering. What did they do before - kick the tyres and make sure it wasn't leaking oil?
westers151 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:29 pm
I had to read that last paragraph twice for that to sink in, and I'm still sitting here with an incredulous look on my face about the fact that they've only just introduced MOT style checks in scrutineering. What did they do before - kick the tyres and make sure it wasn't leaking oil?
I used to know a couple of sidecar crews in the 1990s who raced at the Isle of Man, and they delighted in setting 'scrutineer traps' for the officials - mainly lockwired components that had the exposed ends pointing at the correct angle to spear fingers. They seemed to regard scrutineering as an annoyance more than a safety check.
westers151 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:29 pm
I had to read that last paragraph twice for that to sink in, and I'm still sitting here with an incredulous look on my face about the fact that they've only just introduced MOT style checks in scrutineering. What did they do before - kick the tyres and make sure it wasn't leaking oil?
I used to know a couple of sidecar crews in the 1990s who raced at the Isle of Man, and they delighted in setting 'scrutineer traps' for the officials - mainly lockwired components that had the exposed ends pointing at the correct angle to spear fingers. They seemed to regard scrutineering as an annoyance more than a safety check.
If I was gonna hurtle round TT I'd want my bike checking by someone else.
It still is strict, they’re merely saying that they have to be even more vigilant whilst checking them. Fact is it boils down to whoever is doing the checks and how good they are, I’d be very surprised that a competitor wouldn’t have their machine tip top as it’s their own life they’re risking.
When I used to race I had my bike in perfect condition and when I was spannering for others it was the exact same, that was half the battle.
Scotsrich wrote: ↑Mon Mar 20, 2023 11:09 am As well as where the coroner says it’s a miracle no spectators were killed or injured (pretty much the same as solos but hey ho)
One of the flying Dr videos includes where a solo went through gardens and spectators.
Was that the woman just outside Portstewart who was joined in her garden by a flying bike? IIRC she was extremely lucky to survive it and it didn't end up with multiple fatalities.
I had to read that last paragraph twice for that to sink in, and I'm still sitting here with an incredulous look on my face about the fact that they've only just introduced MOT style checks in scrutineering. What did they do before - kick the tyres and make sure it wasn't leaking oil?
I wonder how much of that is PR speak? I can't see how many MOT checks would apply to a racing sidecar outfit outside of making sure anything isn't obviously falling off?
Bigjawa wrote: ↑Mon Mar 20, 2023 8:15 pm
I wonder how much of that is PR speak? I can't see how many MOT checks would apply to a racing sidecar outfit outside of making sure anything isn't obviously falling off?
wull wrote: ↑Mon Mar 20, 2023 3:40 pm
When I used to race I had my bike in perfect condition and when I was spannering for others it was the exact same, that was half the battle.
I've seen many many race bikes that barely were able to start and stop, let alone do a lap.... but somehow they managed it.
"Ah it'll be fine" was heard many many times in the paddock.
wull wrote: ↑Mon Mar 20, 2023 3:40 pm
When I used to race I had my bike in perfect condition and when I was spannering for others it was the exact same, that was half the battle.
I've seen many many race bikes that barely were able to start and stop, let alone do a lap.... but somehow they managed it.
"Ah it'll be fine" was heard many many times in the paddock.
Never seen much of that but I will say the amount of times the sidecars shat themselves and put oil down delaying time was quite a lot.
The engineering that goes into them is something else, I could spend ages looking at them. One of the problems with the sidecars guys at club meets was they’d strip the whole fucking thing down, chances are something gets missed putting it back together for the 37th time in two days.
The last paragraph is telling. As well as where the coroner says it’s a miracle no spectators were killed or injured (pretty much the same as solos but hey ho)
Maybe sidecars need to be concerned about the IoM as well?
The chairs have a pretty checkered history on the IoM tbh. I remember a story my Dad used to tell about chairs in (iirc) the early '80s: They used be pretty roughly put together, and scrutineering wasn't picking up on things very well... until a chair going over the crest after Greeba (IIRC), absolutely full chat, had the entire front fairing fall off and go under the outfit. Both riders were killed, and the next year the entire sidecar paddock was immaculately turned out, and the scrutineering standards were much higher.
Obviously there's always a trade off between speed (requires lightness of construction) and safety (requires robustness, read heaviness, of construction) when you're constructing a vehicle for racing.
The last paragraph is telling. As well as where the coroner says it’s a miracle no spectators were killed or injured (pretty much the same as solos but hey ho)
Maybe sidecars need to be concerned about the IoM as well?
The chairs have a pretty checkered history on the IoM tbh. I remember a story my Dad used to tell about chairs in (iirc) the early '80s: They used be pretty roughly put together, and scrutineering wasn't picking up on things very well... until a chair going over the crest after Greeba (IIRC), absolutely full chat, had the entire front fairing fall off and go under the outfit. Both riders were killed, and the next year the entire sidecar paddock was immaculately turned out, and the scrutineering standards were much higher.
Obviously there's always a trade off between speed (requires lightness of construction) and safety (requires robustness, read heaviness, of construction) when you're constructing a vehicle for racing.
And a chassis constructed for circuit racing will by definition not take the punishment that it would do on the roads.
If you read the report I linked to it drops pretty heavy hints that equipment failure may have contributed.
The sidecar boys used to have one chassis for the TT and another (lighter) one for the short circuits. The pounding that an outfit takes around 3 laps of the TT is immense and they have to be built much heavier and stronger than those used for short circuits.
mangocrazy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:04 am
The sidecar boys used to have one chassis for the TT and another (lighter) one for the short circuits. The pounding that an outfit takes around 3 laps of the TT is immense and they have to be built much heavier and stronger than those used for short circuits.
There was one with the bodywork off at a bike show I was at a couple of weeks ago, impressive bit of kit, looked like it was built like a tank. The wheels looked exactly like the ones my mate had on his souped up Mini BITD.
mangocrazy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:04 am
The sidecar boys used to have one chassis for the TT and another (lighter) one for the short circuits. The pounding that an outfit takes around 3 laps of the TT is immense and they have to be built much heavier and stronger than those used for short circuits.
There was one with the bodywork off at a bike show I was at a couple of weeks ago, impressive bit of kit, looked like it was built like a tank. The wheels looked exactly like the ones my mate had on his souped up Mini BITD.
Yeah, sidecar outfits are 25% bike, 75% car to be honest. The only really 'bike' thing is the bars and steering head. The front wheel suspension owes as much to cars as it does to bikes. One of the main areas that scrutineers check is to make sure there are no cracks or failure points in the chassis/steering.
The latest TT podcast on Youtube has John Holden talking about his racing. He said that the modern circuit based chassis (monocoque), wouldn't last one lap of the TT, hence they always use tubular based chassis. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEjL1cJ8cwQ
As an aside, the TT podcast is a really good listen, with excellent guests of riders both present and past, as well as team owners. Highly entertaining.
