Depression

[Skub]

You're a good lad Couchy,We all are rooting for you to pull through and start a new chapter.

[the_priest]

@Yorick @Couchy Deep peace to you both in these dark times, may illumination come from unexpected places that restore your worth and dignity, your sense of hope and being rooted back into the place you are meant to be. May your hearts find peace and your loved ones the understanding to bear with your difficulties. If either of you need to PM me, please do feel free, I am not a counsellor, but I do listen and pray.

My darling daughter has been back to university this whole week, shattered by the experience, but looking at going again this week. We have decided to get a private ASD assessment done, bollocks to waiting 39 months for the NHS to even begin the process. It will be expensive, but it is after all, just money and we have it to hand, so no point being daft and waiting.

[MyLittleStudPony]

I'm really sorry to hear that Couchy. Take care and be kind to yourself.

[Buckaroo]

Just sat on front steps taking in the late sun.
Contemplating what happened.

It's Carnival weekend where the whole town parties. Pen and guests have gone but too soon for me.

A few things had been getting to me but managed to block them. But they were bubbling under the surface.
Summat bad happened to me and sent me into overdrive. Maybe the final straw? But was a BIG straw. Dragged me right back to my childhood when my dad beat me for what this same thing was.

Pen's done some research and adults really can be affected by what happened as kids.

Now we may know and it makes it easier to understand.

But fuck, was it scary stood on that cliff edge. I remember thinking that I'd wait till dark so I couldn't see over.

Think I'll be OK now.

Had amazing support from 2 of my old racing buddies who are still close to me.

And thanks for support on here

Guess I may as well open up a bit here, because of my childhood and the following loss of Gribmany years later and again many more years on I’m sat with my marriage all but over. My home my family it’s all going to change. This is all from childhood. Im going through psychotherapy to try and change me and how I react but it’s not going to stop my loss. Twice in the past few weeks I’ve done what you have and stood where I shouldn’t be before calling someone and asking for help. Problem is blokes our age were bought up by people who didn’t know any better, then for years it’s bit been right to talk and it takes us time and bravery to open up. I want to help but all I can do at the moment is say I know what you’re going through. Damn I wanna Jump on a plane and come see you mate. Message me if you want, I’m little use but I have to offer as people have been so kind to me. I’ve no idea where I’m going or what’s gonna happen but I can reply to a message.

Life's such a bastard at times. It never dishes up trouble in a way we can manage. Always giving it to you by the bucket load. I'm a sworn atheist but have to tell you that I found solice in the good book. Not the religious part, but the humanity and the perspective it puts on things. Just as with Yorick, I don't 'know' you but I am rooting for you and wish you well Couchy.

[Tricky]

Just sat on front steps taking in the late sun.
Contemplating what happened.

It's Carnival weekend where the whole town parties. Pen and guests have gone but too soon for me.

A few things had been getting to me but managed to block them. But they were bubbling under the surface.
Summat bad happened to me and sent me into overdrive. Maybe the final straw? But was a BIG straw. Dragged me right back to my childhood when my dad beat me for what this same thing was.

Pen's done some research and adults really can be affected by what happened as kids.

Now we may know and it makes it easier to understand.

But fuck, was it scary stood on that cliff edge. I remember thinking that I'd wait till dark so I couldn't see over.

Think I'll be OK now.

Had amazing support from 2 of my old racing buddies who are still close to me.

And thanks for support on here

Guess I may as well open up a bit here, because of my childhood and the following loss of Gribmany years later and again many more years on I’m sat with my marriage all but over. My home my family it’s all going to change. This is all from childhood. Im going through psychotherapy to try and change me and how I react but it’s not going to stop my loss. Twice in the past few weeks I’ve done what you have and stood where I shouldn’t be before calling someone and asking for help. Problem is blokes our age were bought up by people who didn’t know any better, then for years it’s bit been right to talk and it takes us time and bravery to open up. I want to help but all I can do at the moment is say I know what you’re going through. Damn I wanna Jump on a plane and come see you mate. Message me if you want, I’m little use but I have to offer as people have been so kind to me. I’ve no idea where I’m going or what’s gonna happen but I can reply to a message.

Aww no. I've just dipped into this thread again for the first time in a while, and reading that has made me sad for both of you, and your families.
Anyone who knows me IRL will know that I'm quite a private person and fall into the category of blokes our age who don't share stuff, and not sure I can be much help but just wanted you both to know that am routing for you both.
I consider myself very fortunate that when I found myself at the edge getting on for 20 years ago I had three young boys who depended on me for pretty much everything, and that kept me just about on the right side. I had a really tough few years with it but I made it through to be happier now than I've ever been or imagined I could be again, and it's my belief that it was them that got me to the other side - stick with it guys !

[Yorick]

I suffer from anxiety rather than depression. Doctors explained that I can feel symptoms of depression as they do overlap, but thankfully I don't suffer from it as well. Often feel in a black hole and can't get out. But only lasts a few hours.
I have coping measures to cope with other symptoms of anxiety.
When I'm down I think "I'd rather be a bit poorly here, rather than a bit poorly in Bradford ". Or just go sit in my mancave. Or just take the dog for a walk.
Try to concentrate on the positives.

When I see/hear folk saying "you need to do..." I think they're idiots. Nobody knows what's in your head.
Only way I help is by listening, sharing experiences and talking about coping mechanisms. Don't tell them they are doing it wrong.

Most mornings I walk along the seafront. It always lifts me up.
Today's walk was first for a few days

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[Docca]

Impulsive thoughts about ‘what if’ - edge of a cliff/jumping out of a moving car etc… in psycho babble are referred to as ‘intrusive thoughts’.

Can be once in a blue moon, can be daily. It’s symptomatic of anxiety disorders and there is correlation between severity of anxiety and levels of intrusive thinking.

You’d have seen the stereotypical OCD; if I don’t turn the kettle on 20 times, I’ll come to harm and so on.

The less obvious is often mistakenly associated with depression. You typically won’t act out on these thoughts, but that doesn’t make them any less comfortable. Plus, sometimes people jump.


Don’t jump though. That would suck. Get help and work on the root cause of the anxiety. Easier said than done, but making a start will help.

I wouldn’t recommend the NHS for anything but urgent MH care atm though-so if you can, go private or be prepared for a very long wait.

All the best

( really saddened to read your update, Couch)

[Screwdriver]

Does anyone have any direct experience of the latest antidepressants?

I think I am on a path leading nowhere and I strongly suspect this is the only course of action for me now.

I have resisted multiple offers from my GP, they really have no idea who I am. It is no longer a personal service either from the GP or the NHS.

Think it's time I gave these another try so I am genuinely looking for some empirical knowledge.

[Taipan]

I suffer from anxiety rather than depression. Doctors explained that I can feel symptoms of depression as they do overlap, but thankfully I don't suffer from it as well. Often feel in a black hole and can't get out. But only lasts a few hours.
I have coping measures to cope with other symptoms of anxiety.
When I'm down I think "I'd rather be a bit poorly here, rather than a bit poorly in Bradford ". Or just go sit in my mancave. Or just take the dog for a walk.
Try to concentrate on the positives.

When I see/hear folk saying "you need to do..." I think they're idiots. Nobody knows what's in your head.
Only way I help is by listening, sharing experiences and talking about coping mechanisms. Don't tell them they are doing it wrong.

Most mornings I walk along the seafront. It always lifts me up.
Today's walk was first for a few days

20230306_095435.jpg20230306_095835.jpg20230306_100551.jpg

Don't be too harsh mate. People are often well intentioned, but if they have no experience of your emotions, or mental health issues in general, they can only offer support in the way they think will help. As many have mentioned, a lot of grew up in an era where mental health care consisted off "pull yourself together" and "cheer up it may never happen"!

Both my kids suffer from anxiety and both have been medicated for it. My daughter has been able to deal with it better than my Son, as life has gone on, and is carving out a career for herself. But she works for senior people and often the pressure is on and she really battles her anxiety at times. If she is here working from home I can see the shakes gripping her at times.

My Son is the same but tends to get really moody when he is at his worse. He'll (verbally) lash out at us and we just have to suck it up and let him vent. DOesn't cure anything, but its just the way he goes with his anxiety. He was an outgoing, joking type of kid, life and soul of the party etc. Seeing him so withdrawn and drinking heavily on his own at weekends is not good.

I cant fix it for either of them. As a parent that makes me feel useless, a feeling I hate. Trying to talk to them can often bring about the wrong reaction, but if you don't acknowledge the situation, you feel like you're ignoring them and worry they feel like that. Its very difficult to gauge. This side of the coin isn't a good place to be either, but of course the lesser of the two evils.

[Couchy]

Does anyone have any direct experience of the latest antidepressants?

This won't be a popular view, but for temporary and occasional anxiety (the type where you're ready to burn the whole world down) then I think taking yourself off to the pub, having just the one (I do mean just one), then walking back slowly to reconsider, is the most effective thing ever.

Whilst I can totally agree with the taking yourself off to the pub or something along those lines in the moment the anxiety is taking over it's not that part of the brain that can make that decision that is in control. it's changing this behaviour that is the solution for me and even knowing that it's gonna take a lot of falls and getting up to get there

[Screwdriver]

I am not going to hijack this thread with a list of my own personal issues but I do not think it is "anxiety" in my case. It is much more likely to be a clinical depression with some sort of issue relating to a chemical imbalance or faulty mechanism.

When you look at the top five stress risers: employment, financial security, housing, relationship and health, I seem to score a zero on everything. If we were playing depression poker, I'd have a full house and TBH, I don't know how I go this far.

With me it is simply a complete lack of motivation. Nothing gives me any pleasure. I merely exist and my reward for battling through this interminable malaise is I get to go through it all over again tomorrow.

I had hoped that the extraordinary response to Methylprednisolone would lead to some sort of positive treatment but I am told, that drug is not a "treatment" per se. It was merely an intervention to try and stop further brain loss. The side effect of it was magical as I detail in some other post. I was happy, joyful, full of energy and the day simply wasn't long enough. Now I am back to square one being offered a lifetime on some MS drug administered by drip and all that can try and do is stop things getting worse.

So the upshot is this is as good as it gets and yet clearly it is not enough. I hope it is a chemical imbalance, lack of serotonin or dopamine (or both!) and that some antidepressant or other can make up for any deficiency without turning me into a fluffy bunny happy hippy. That's what happened last time I was on Prozac. It even felt "wrong" but I must admit, it was a "happy" time even if it made me dangerously carefree.

[weeksy]

I am not going to hijack this thread with a list of my own personal issues but I do not think it is "anxiety" in my case.

To a great extent that's why it's here fella.

I've not got involved in 99% of this as i like to let it run it's course, but i like to think i'm massively influential in Couchy still being with us, we spend a lot of time together and talk a lot on the phone too. Some of our discussions have opened my mind a fair bit into this stuff and i hope i'm a little bit more open minded than i previously have been about 'issues'.


So feel free to post your own stuff, right or wrong, better or worse, this is the place for you to say "I'm not OK..." and go from there.

We as a predominantly blokey forum, rarely talk about problems, issues and things that sometimes need to be talked about.. So if you want to, then go for it.

[Docca]

Does anyone have any direct experience of the latest antidepressants?

I think I am on a path leading nowhere and I strongly suspect this is the only course of action for me now.

I have resisted multiple offers from my GP, they really have no idea who I am. It is no longer a personal service either from the GP or the NHS.

Think it's time I gave these another try so I am genuinely looking for some empirical knowledge.

I think when I first starting posting on Visordown about antidepressant use, I was waving the 'they might only provide some benefit to 30% of the people, 20% of the time'.

Working through your 'path to nowhere' is the key bit. That's a process involving something called 'formulation' and it's more talking and discovering, then adapting- than it is papering over the cracks.


That said, if an antidepressant can help you- then it has the benefit of enabling that clarity of thinking and motivation to think more clearly (if that makes sense).

It's almost impossible to have a 1:1 personal relationship for MH in the NHS because we just don't have the staff, which starts at the front door (the GP). It's been a long time since I considered which antidepressant worked where, but from memory your GP will almost always reach for Citalopram first and advise IAPT services.

My take on that is a bit similar to my experience on having a car recovered from the roadside that quite clearly can't be fixed by the first chap that turns up in the van, instead needs the flatbed. You know that, they know that- but they have to go through process on the off chance. Citalopram is the noddy van, Mirtazepine (for example) would be the flat bed.


If anyone is feeling down/at their lowest ebb/feeling that they might do themselves harm, then there is a free SMS service: Give us a shout. Text: 85258 and someone (a real human) will keep checking in on you to see if you're ok.



For most of what i've read on this thread, I'd personally recommend psychology and not medicine as an investment to make. That will almost certainly mean going private if you want to be seen this side of your lifetime.

[Couchy]

I am not going to hijack this thread with a list of my own personal issues but I do not think it is "anxiety" in my case. It is much more likely to be a clinical depression with some sort of issue relating to a chemical imbalance or faulty mechanism.

When you look at the top five stress risers: employment, financial security, housing, relationship and health, I seem to score a zero on everything. If we were playing depression poker, I'd have a full house and TBH, I don't know how I go this far.

With me it is simply a complete lack of motivation. Nothing gives me any pleasure. I merely exist and my reward for battling through this interminable malaise is I get to go through it all over again tomorrow.

I had hoped that the extraordinary response to Methylprednisolone would lead to some sort of positive treatment but I am told, that drug is not a "treatment" per se. It was merely an intervention to try and stop further brain loss. The side effect of it was magical as I detail in some other post. I was happy, joyful, full of energy and the day simply wasn't long enough. Now I am back to square one being offered a lifetime on some MS drug administered by drip and all that can try and do is stop things getting worse.

So the upshot is this is as good as it gets and yet clearly it is not enough. I hope it is a chemical imbalance, lack of serotonin or dopamine (or both!) and that some antidepressant or other can make up for any deficiency without turning me into a fluffy bunny happy hippy. That's what happened last time I was on Prozac. It even felt "wrong" but I must admit, it was a "happy" time even if it made me dangerously carefree.

Keep posting mate, it's threads like this that help old men like us as we don't talk enough. I've had to learn to talk and still don't as much as I should but I have got help that is working for me. I know all too well someone telling you to do something doesn't always mean you'll listen but today I'm on a level so I'll keep saying it. Chase your GP a bit more, escalate it if needed as they only deal with those that shout the loudest. If needed go and camp on their doorstep and don't move till they help you. The system is fucked and it takes an extreme approach to get through.
But keep doing something, message, post, cry for help, text, call, anything.

[Couchy]

Can I add to what Docca has said, the NHS was all but useless and I had citalopram as the first option, it didn't work and I didn't go back. I tried CBT therapy and that didn't work. There was a couple of other tablets too that didn't work. I'd all but given up but the last episode was serious and a friend found me a local counsellor. Initial meeting with them was to see if we get on, this seems the key and luckily we did. It is private but I was seen within 48hrs and now it's weekly. Mine was found here

https://www.counselling-directory.org.uk/

For my mindset this type of psychotherapy helps as it's basically me talking through the issues and with some prompting me getting a better understanding of them. My brain likes to solve problems and needs to identify things, once I can do that I am happy to work on them. I'm simplifying it a bit and it doesn't sound much but it's been a huge help so far.

[Screwdriver]

Thanks for the replies, I am somewhat overwhelmed.

There is no danger of me doing any harm currently, I went through that period for a few years (!) a year or so ago now. I should probably rid myself of some of the mechanisms I put in place for use had I lost all hope. Thankfully I do have someone who peers over my shoulder and helped me through those dark days and gave me hope.

CBT and psychotherapy does not work on me, I am too much of a clever cloggs (i.e. a twat) and inevitably it ends up being a battle. That is of course with either the NHS freebies <expletive deleted> or low end private consultant practices which just offered slightly trickier "competition".

You don't have to tell me that's the wrong way to approach therapy! I can easily intellectualise the process, I know what I am doing wrong but I can't help myself and they can't help me. Some of the shit I have been through I dare not speak of and again, I appreciate that is still part of the problem.

This so called "non-presenting MS" is obviously a bitter pill to swallow. It is invisible as you might expect except for how I react to any given situation. I do not handle stress well at all and all that can be seen of this chronic illness is that I can be a complete asshole. There is a strong possibility that since this is simply random destruction of brain material, it will strike somewhere more obvious. Arms, legs, heart, respiratory system are all potential targets for the next "relapse". Perhaps I was lucky "only" to lose part of my eyesight but it is the sword of Damocles. It's always there, there is no cure and it is getting worse.

I can try to ignore it but my subconscious won't let me. It is difficult to plan for the future when you don't have one.

I am still building up an impressive workshop facility, still planning to finish off a few bikes but now I'll just get them going and get them gone. I need to start going through this massive hoard and getting it out of my way. Save the "I'll help you get rid of that" jokes, I've heard them all and I already have plans for who gets to go through Aladdins cave after a lifetime of hoarding.

Motivation is the key and if that means drugs - give me drugs!

[Noggin]

The best thing that happened to me for MH was being offered to see a psychologist in the rehab centre after my second shoulder replacement - the doctors didn't understand why I was so stressed and kept crying, even though I had zero use of my arm after an operation that was supposed to make things better!!

After seeing her for about 3.5 months, once a week, she helped me balance so much stuff from the past (childhood, teen, adulthood) but also helped hugely with things since the bike crash (including the cycle crash!!). And, she spoke English, so it was relatively easy to communicate.

I wish I could go back and see her because she was ace, but it doesn't seem that easy as she's connected to the rehab centre. When I was in a different centre last summer, I asked if I could see the psychologist there as well (really wasn't dealing well with the leg break and the effect of using crutches on my shoulder) - sadly, I didn't gel with this one. Partly because she made me start over again and I had already got myself into a better place. Of course, doing it in French probably made it worse and I ended up coming out of each session stressed and in tears. So I quit as I felt myself getting worse each time.

If I could find one like the first one, I'd try and sort out to see them fairly regularly. But hey ho. I just keep going back to some of the info I got before and it does help a bit.

Everything I was taught/told in my childhood and even young adulthood by family and friends was just "chin up it'll get better" or "pull yourself together dear". And the drugs really didn't work back then!! Luckily I found somewhere to live that helps by just being here. But the absolute best is knowing I now have people I can call or go and see and that really helps - I very rarely feel the need to do either, but knowing they are there makes all the difference



@Yorick @Couchy - wish there was something I could say that would help. I'd offer a space to visit the Alps as a change of scene, but it's currently very cold which isn't positive for most! But, if staying in a teeny apartment (I'm out at work most of the time!) and being around the snow that is coming would help, then shout me. Not everyone's idea of a calming place, but if it helps, please do shout me.

[MrLongbeard]

Been referred to the NHS head shrinkers.
Prior to my first telephone appointment , although to be fair I can't decide if doing it remotely is a good thing or a bad thing, I suppose I can maintain a sliver of dignity, no matter how false, not being in person, any who digression aside, they sent me a mental health questionnaire to complete.

Ahhh well, the appointment isn't for another week, no point stewing over it until it's been chewed over and hashed out, but I foresee some aggro going forward as I'll be buggered six ways till Sunday if they want to foist the standard SSRI's on me again

After speaking to the Trainee Psychological Wellbeing Practitioner for an hour, filling in the questionnaire they'd sent along with some rather uncomfortable questions, my starting point is moderately severe levels of depression and severe levels of anxiety.

Now on a 12 week waiting list for telephone based CBT which by my reckoning will be a waste of time as I'm convinced my headfuckery is seasonal, but GP reckons I should crack on with it and see it I can develop coping strategies, I'm not convinced but seeing as I'm now in the system will see how it plays out.

[Couchy]

Been referred to the NHS head shrinkers.
Prior to my first telephone appointment , although to be fair I can't decide if doing it remotely is a good thing or a bad thing, I suppose I can maintain a sliver of dignity, no matter how false, not being in person, any who digression aside, they sent me a mental health questionnaire to complete.

Ahhh well, the appointment isn't for another week, no point stewing over it until it's been chewed over and hashed out, but I foresee some aggro going forward as I'll be buggered six ways till Sunday if they want to foist the standard SSRI's on me again

After speaking to the Trainee Psychological Wellbeing Practitioner for an hour, filling in the questionnaire they'd sent along with some rather uncomfortable questions, my starting point is moderately severe levels of depression and severe levels of anxiety.

Now on a 12 week waiting list for telephone based CBT which by my reckoning will be a waste of time as I'm convinced my headfuckery is seasonal, but GP reckons I should crack on with it and see it I can develop coping strategies, I'm not convinced but seeing as I'm now in the system will see how it plays out.

Fuck waiting use my link and get help asap. CBT hmmm it does work for some but did nothing for me. 12 weeks is too long to wait tbh

[Yorick]

McAfee fucked me up so they paid for my CBT. Very expensive at the lady's big posh house. Was a nice drive over and an hour chat.
Did bugger all. If I'd been paying I would have stopped.

But it does work for some.