If we were to rejoin the EU tomorrow, what benefits would you miss most about Brexit?

[irie]

I've said nothing on the subject of LDIs, QE or the BoE.

Of course you did.

My guess is that in saying that you are not aware of the role of LDI's in the pension fund/BoE debacle. Google is your friend.

You would be incorrect in that assumption.

Carry on.

[mangocrazy]

I've said nothing on the subject of LDIs, QE or the BoE.

Of course you did.

My guess is that in saying that you are not aware of the role of LDI's in the pension fund/BoE debacle. Google is your friend.

You would be incorrect in that assumption.

Carry on.

Good grief. You were the one who first mentioned LDIs in this conversation, not me. I merely stated that your assumption regarding my understanding of the role of LDIs in the pension fund debacle was incorrect. I stated the primary reason that the market tanked and pension funds were under stress was because of the Kwarteng/Truss budget. LDIs and their role in the ensuing market turmoil was a secondary effect, not the primary cause and as such I did not mention them.

Are you really so hard of understanding?

[irie]

I've said nothing on the subject of LDIs, QE or the BoE.

Of course you did.

You would be incorrect in that assumption.

Carry on.

Good grief. You were the one who first mentioned LDIs in this conversation, not me. I merely stated that your assumption regarding my understanding of the role of LDIs in the pension fund debacle was incorrect. I stated the primary reason that the market tanked and pension funds were under stress was because of the Kwarteng/Truss budget. LDIs and their role in the ensuing market turmoil was a secondary effect, not the primary cause and as such I did not mention them.

The market in LDIs was unregulated in spite of the fact that the BoE had been repeatedly advised it should do so. When the Truss/Kwarteng budget was announced the £1.6 trillion LDI market tanked. If the LDI market had been regulated by the BoE then it probably would not have tanked. The risk was there all time and the Truss/Kwarteng budget was the trigger.

Are you really so hard of understanding?

Resorting to ad hominems speaks for itself.

End of.

[Count Steer]

Interesting what the Parliamentary committee had to say about it. (The BoE doesn't get a mention).

https://committees.parliament.uk/commi ... -turmoil/

This bit made me smile (wryly)...

'the use of borrowing and derivatives for these purposes is not permitted by the relevant underlying EU legislation, which appears to have been permissively transposed in the UK in order to allow pension schemes to continue using such strategies.'

[Pirahna]

Talking of money, it would nice to get a bit of the pound/euro exchange rate back. Before Brexit it was 1.30 ish and dropped to 1.23 the morning of the result. Since then it's moved around a bit but never even close to it's pre Brexit rate. I was lucky to change a large chunk of money at 1.20 early last year, at the moment it's around 1.13.

[irie]

Interesting what the Parliamentary committee had to say about it. (The BoE doesn't get a mention).

https://committees.parliament.uk/commi ... -turmoil/

This bit made me smile (wryly)...

'the use of borrowing and derivatives for these purposes is not permitted by the relevant underlying EU legislation, which appears to have been permissively transposed in the UK in order to allow pension schemes to continue using such strategies.'

Recomendations [sic]

In the letter, the Committee calls for action to improve regulation and reduce the risk of similar disruption in the future. It recommends that:

... The Government should consider giving the Prudential Regulation Authority a role in overseeing pension schemes. ...

"The Bank of England prudentially regulates and supervises financial services firms through the Prudential Regulation Authority (PRA)"

[mangocrazy]

the Truss/Kwarteng budget was the trigger.

Which was my point all along and the point you were trying to ignore.

[Greenman]

I believe I'm asking you if you really believe that where you live now is actually less racist than Brizzle ?

Not at all. I know how 'racist' it is here. And chauvanist. And I've been on the receiving end of both. The difference is that I knew that when I came here. It hasn't changed for worse in the last couple of years (ok, 6-8 years) that I'm aware of - but I do live on top of a mountain and I am also aware of more issues in big cities.

It's not that it's around - it's that when I was in Bristol, it got so very much worse than the previous few years before the Brexit debate. The change was, IMHO, for the worst and I was very uncomfortable with it.

I don't think Bristol is really any different than it was a decade / twenty years ago. The fuckwit Mayor(s) had a bigger impact no detracting from the quality of life in the city than Brexit / wokeness and the tearing down of Colston's statue.
I can't get used to the Colston hall being called the Bristol Beacon, but I'll cope.
I was at Temple meads station at 10.00 last night. There was a perfectly pleasant multi cultural atmosphere. Even the Welsh Ex Pats who'd been back to Cardiff to see their team loose to the mighty England were in good spirits

I didn't know Bristol 20years ago. I moved there about 15 years ago and really only got to know the Stapleton/Frenchay areas. The change that I noticed mostly started with the Brexit debate and got worse up to and after the result. That was when I, as someone who voted remain because of my then lifestyle and plans for the future and the futures of my niece and nephew and my fellow seasonaires, felt uncomfortable living in that area.

I mean, if I felt uncomfortable, how do you think my EU friends who had made lives in the uk and brought up children with uk born partners felt? I know many that felt they should move out of the uk due to the rhetoric - but their lives were in the uk with their children, partners and families.

I think it's great that Bristol seems less as I remember it. But I'm not sure that would ever persuade me to move back to Bristol or anywhere in the uk

Can i just mention that i do not find Bristol racist at all, no more than any other large city.

Bristol is quite a liberal city with a diverse set of inhabitants from around the world and born and bred Bristrolians like myself have been brought up around this diversity for decades, i would of thought it was one of the less racist cities in the UK.

However, the Brexit and Covid work from home thing has started to bring many others from cities such as that London which is turning some area's into hipster havens with the majority being white British middle class, this has of course gentrified some area's and has pushed some of the original inhabitants out. It has, for me at least, also brought a more aggressive feel to some areas and especially on the roads, everyone just seems to be in a rush all the time and has no respect for anyone else, but maybe this is just due to overpopulation, who knows really!

You can always tell an area that has been gentrified by the richer middle classes as every other shop that used to be locally owned is now an overpriced coffee chain of some flavour which has killed off all of the local community feel!

[Felix]

Local shops close due to the lack of customers not some large over rated coffee shit house offering them mega bucks to sell. Use you local shops more

[Count Steer]

"The Bank of England prudentially regulates and supervises financial services firms through the Prudential Regulation Authority (PRA)"

Financial services firms but not pension funds. The suggestion is that they should also have a role in the regulation of pension fund management. Either way, the regulatory regime of the EU would have put a crimp on the use if LDIs but we decided to be more relaxed.

[Greenman]

Local shops close due to the lack of customers not some large over rated coffee shit house offering them mega bucks to sell. Use you local shops more

Supply and demand. Once the culture of the community changes so do it's surroundings.

[irie]

"The Bank of England prudentially regulates and supervises financial services firms through the Prudential Regulation Authority (PRA)"

Financial services firms but not pension funds. The suggestion is that they should also have a role in the regulation of pension fund management. Either way, the regulatory regime of the EU would have put a crimp on the use if LDIs but we decided to be more relaxed.

A costly mistake indeed.

... the BoE, in spite of repeated warnings, failed to regulate institutions leveraging LDIs ...

Canvassing this point any further quite obviously will be fruitless.

[Cousin Jack]

Leveraging (or to call it what it is, gambling with money you don't have), should be illegal, it's fundamentally corrupt.

Careful! Buying a house on a mortgage, or taking out a loan to buy a car is leveraging. Do you want to ban that?

[Noggin]

Can i just mention that i do not find Bristol racist at all, no more than any other large city.

Bristol is quite a liberal city with a diverse set of inhabitants from around the world and born and bred Bristrolians like myself have been brought up around this diversity for decades, i would of thought it was one of the less racist cities in the UK.

However, the Brexit and Covid work from home thing has started to bring many others from cities such as that London which is turning some area's into hipster havens with the majority being white British middle class, this has of course gentrified some area's and has pushed some of the original inhabitants out. It has, for me at least, also brought a more aggressive feel to some areas and especially on the roads, everyone just seems to be in a rush all the time and has no respect for anyone else, but maybe this is just due to overpopulation, who knows really!

You can always tell an area that has been gentrified by the richer middle classes as every other shop that used to be locally owned is now an overpriced coffee chain of some flavour which has killed off all of the local community feel!

TBF, I'm not labelling ALL of Bristol like that. But many of the people in the area I was living were. Also, it was my first experience of living in a city!!

I do realise it's just a small snapshot of one city. But as I mentioned, when my 'friends' (more than just the one, sadly) were abusive because of differing views, it added to the dislike of the people I came into contact with in the uk. Specifically Bristol because I lived there. But some of the 'friends' lived in different places, so I know it wasn't limited!

[mangocrazy]

In the late 60s I worked Saturdays in the local branch of Currys. I well remember how long-winded and time-consuming filling out the hire purchase agreement was, so much so that I was shocked at what a comparatively short time a marriage ceremony took. Half an hour for an HP agreement for a vacuum cleaner or a TV, ten minutes to sign your life away...

[Cousin Jack]

Leveraging (or to call it what it is, gambling with money you don't have), should be illegal, it's fundamentally corrupt.

Careful! Buying a house on a mortgage, or taking out a loan to buy a car is leveraging. Do you want to ban that?

I'd prefer to see a return to when you went to discuss such things with the local bank branch manager.
Loan for a car is doable, loan for a house no problem if you can afford it, but a loan to go gambling with at the casino or on the stock market, probably not.

So would I, but it is about as likely as me becoming pregnant.

[Ant]

And if that all went wrong, it would still be someone elses fault.

[Horse]

And if that all went wrong, it would still be someone elses fault.

Your statement based on what?

I don't know either way. But for cars:

The Law Commission has recommended that under a new Automated Vehicles Act, the manufacturer should be responsible for the actions of automated vehicles and that passengers should be immune from prosecution if the vehicle were to speed, jump a red light, strike a pedestrian or crash.

Although a passenger in a crashing plane (or car, for that matter) wouldn't be immune from injury or death.

[mangocrazy]

In the late 60s I worked Saturdays in the local branch of Currys. I well remember how long-winded and time-consuming filling out the hire purchase agreement was, so much so that I was shocked at what a comparatively short time a marriage ceremony took. Half an hour for an HP agreement for a vacuum cleaner or a TV, ten minutes to sign your life away...

I can see a sort of logic in the old HP stuff, it's to buy an actual asset that you'll use.

But leveraging investments is borrowing multiples of what you can't afford to gamble in the first place, on the off-chance you might win, with many cases where they can't even afford the margin calls if it starts tipping.

Getting a new telly from Rumbalows on the drip is one thing, but buying derivatives with cosmic liabilities is something else entirely

I'm entirely with you on that - City trading is essentially gambling with other people's money. I can remember the hoops that you used to have to jump through to get any kind of credit in the 70s. I went to my bank in the mid 70s to get a loan to buy a decent camera (Nikon) and a couple of Nikkor lenses. I had to go through a really intensive interrogation before I was (grudgingly) considered worthy. Fast forward a few years and with the advent of credit cards it was a case of 'how much do you want?' and 'would you like an increased credit limit with that sir?'

[Ant]

the Truss/Kwarteng budget was the trigger.

Which was my point all along and the point you were trying to ignore.

You put the blame entirely on them, which is different to suggesting they were the trigger.

But if you were the BoE, you would use that golden opportunity to dump the market, as you need someone else to pay for it, so why not wait for the general thick public to point the blame at those at the forefront of the country?