Walkout Wednesday! I'm on strike!

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Mr Moofo
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Re: Walkout Wednesday! I'm on strike!

Post by Mr Moofo »

gremlin wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 4:16 pm What i do know is that Mrs. G has gone deaf in her left ear. After scrabbling for GP appointments and referrals, she has an appointment at the local hospital's audiology dept. for January 2024. Fuck it, we'll pay for private.

Show me anybody, other than those who receive emergency care, who can say they are happy with the service that they are paying for. The NHS is sinking and it's dragging the country down with it.
I haven't had a hearing test in 4 years - and finally managed to drag on out of Audiology yesterday. Whoopee - I'm getting deafer!
Despite them telling me there was no chance of getting an appointment, the department wasn't overly busy . Erm - I was the only person there being seen.
Still, got in 1/2 late, and was dealt with by a lovely lady. <y 45 minute appointment then took 1.5 hrs - so sorry for the nest person :oops:
In that 1/2 hr it was interesting to observe what was going on in reception and the corridors - lots of chat, lots of coffee and tea, a fair amount of larking about - but certainly nobody rushing around - and the pace that everything was done at was impressive. I can see why people don't want to go to the private sector

Gremo - 100% agree with you last statement. The squander culture of the admin wing of the NHS is driving this country down with its inept approach, its bureaucracy and its firm belief that its customers should worship them.

@gremlin - Re hearing - send the better looking one of the Gremlin partnership to Specsavers - you can get a free hearing test there. The only issue will be they will try and hard sell hearing aids there and then. Resist and demand NHS ones and you won't have to part with 2k. Unless she has very specific hearing problems
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Re: Walkout Wednesday! I'm on strike!

Post by gremlin »

Mr Moofo wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 4:27 pm
@gremlin - Re hearing - send the better looking one of the Gremlin partnership to Specsavers - you can get a free hearing test there.
But my hearing is fine.... :think:
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Re: Walkout Wednesday! I'm on strike!

Post by demographic »

Potter wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 1:31 pm Seems a bit paranoid to me, covid is something we have to live with, chances are in an average week you're around someone who is positive or touch something that they've touched. Unless you're one of those people that still wear nappies on your face and drown yourself in alcohol gel if someone crosses the road near you, then it's time to just get on with life.

When I was an apprentice I certainly couldn't afford to take unpaid time off work, I had things to pay for and commitments.
Apprentice, was that before or after you were in seal team seven and a half? :crazy:
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Re: Walkout Wednesday! I'm on strike!

Post by Docca »

Mr Moofo wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 4:27 pm
gremlin wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 4:16 pm What i do know is that Mrs. G has gone deaf in her left ear. After scrabbling for GP appointments and referrals, she has an appointment at the local hospital's audiology dept. for January 2024. Fuck it, we'll pay for private.

Show me anybody, other than those who receive emergency care, who can say they are happy with the service that they are paying for. The NHS is sinking and it's dragging the country down with it.
I haven't had a hearing test in 4 years - and finally managed to drag on out of Audiology yesterday. Whoopee - I'm getting deafer!
Despite them telling me there was no chance of getting an appointment, the department wasn't overly busy . Erm - I was the only person there being seen.
Still, got in 1/2 late, and was dealt with by a lovely lady. <y 45 minute appointment then took 1.5 hrs - so sorry for the nest person :oops:
In that 1/2 hr it was interesting to observe what was going on in reception and the corridors - lots of chat, lots of coffee and tea, a fair amount of larking about - but certainly nobody rushing around - and the pace that everything was done at was impressive. I can see why people don't want to go to the private sector

Gremo - 100% agree with you last statement. The squander culture of the admin wing of the NHS is driving this country down with its inept approach, its bureaucracy and its firm belief that its customers should worship them.

@gremlin - Re hearing - send the better looking one of the Gremlin partnership to Specsavers - you can get a free hearing test there. The only issue will be they will try and hard sell hearing aids there and then. Resist and demand NHS ones and you won't have to part with 2k. Unless she has very specific hearing problems

I think it's probably worth recognising that where you can, you cut your cloth. So if the department didn't appear busy, it might have been because of how things have been deliberately scheduled to accommodate workflow (read: available resource).

Want a view of areas that show raw demand where you don't have the luxury of turning the tap off?: A&E, Ambulance services, mental health services (all, but especially crisis), cancer....etc etc.

To make a political point: It is the Tory government that has reduced mental health bed base exponentially since the 1980s. We're now sending people to police cells, A+E and hotels because of capacity. We used to send them to other parts of the country when we were full, but now they're full. The Lansley reforms and the Health and Social care act of 2012 were an attempt to commercialise care (and drive competition in the market for the provision of care) but it's been a disaster. We've effectively created single points and entry with short-ish triage but very, very long waiting tails. Actually now we don't have short-ish triage; for the last 20 years, you could argue that our blue light/crisis services were effective...it was just the rehab stuff that was fucked. Now, it's all fucked.

It might be easy to conflate the need for investment with greedy pay rises, but the reality is you need to invest in transformation and change costs money (and the limited clinical resource you do have are typically not change specialists).

Full transparency:

- One of my kids waited 5 years for an neurodiversity assessment- he's now diagnosed with ADHD and his school work has picked up as he responds to treatment.

- my mother waited 2 days in an ambulance and 4 days on a trolley in an A&E corridor for treatment for hyperkalemia.

- my wife has had a double retina detachment and was sent, blind, from one hospital to another (one in Surrey to one in London), only to be turned away by eye hospital staff through administration incompetence.

- I've had surgery recently where having waited for 3 years, when under the knife- they nearly took out the wrong thing.


The is pressure everywhere. It's collapsing. Tonight i'm on-call and I have 30 people waiting in acute hospitals for mental health beds. That's waiting, acutely mentally disturbed, in corridors and cafe's etc.

I'd support free at the point of need for crisis care, with a graded model of funding proportionate to treatment need and income. Be under no illusion, but current system is drowning. The government will play the workforce holding the NHS to ransom over pay, but the truer truth is no government wants to take the NHS out back and shoot it- nor can we continue to fund it.

Your hearing, as a non-urgent need will be amongst the easier stuff to charge against ( I say that as someone else with atrocious hearing!). Oh, and if your poor hearing was self-inflicted...etc,
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Re: Walkout Wednesday! I'm on strike!

Post by irie »

Docca wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 4:04 pm
irie wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 8:14 am
My wife trained in the NHS (is a RGN) but left because she could see the writing on the wall and retrained as an OHA (Occupational Health Advisor). She now has her own business which I helped set up for her and for which I am a partner (LLP).

She says she left when the NHS was being turned over to bureaucrats and ceasing to be nurse centred. Dealt a fatal blow when nursing became degree only (in 2009?) which spelt the death of nursing as a vocation.

The NHS was failing decades ago, Covid has fatally accelerated its decline. The model was created over 75 years ago, and you can chuck more and more money at it but won't reverse its decline because the model no longer serves the needs of today's society. The model is fatally obsolete.
So the bureaucrat point has been made for decades. Since at least the 1980s, but it wouldn't be much of a stretch to say it's further back than that.

The '80s in particular (and in particular in general nursing) brought in a proliferation of models, which were often misunderstood or poorly applied (they were guides and frameworks, not doctrines).

One of the challenges is that the delivery of health and care has matured. It's no longer convalescing in a cottage in Devon for a couple of weeks by the sea. The tripple whammy of illnesses being better understood, treatments becoming more advanced (including technically) and workforce (both shortages and people wanting to advance and prove they can take on additional responsibilities) has meant you need a benchmark to ensure you have people of the right intellectual standing taking up nursing roles.

More traditional doctor roles are now the remit of nurses and nurse specialists, including investigations through to surgery etc. It was arguably 'project 2000' ( In the 1990s) that moved nursing away from purely bum wiping and hand holding, and made a deliberate shift to 50% theory and 50% practical. This was a diploma course and caused uproar from the 'enrolled nurses' from the '70's and '80s. There was even a clamber by some MPs to 'bring back matron' and white gloves etc.

I didn't get degree in nursing, I got a diploma. I've since got various additional qualifications, but I think that's a by product of my interests that have been largely experience based.

I don't now, nor have I ever seen Nursing as a vocation. It's a profession, with a professional body and standards that are expected. People have fought hard to make it so. It's not perfect, but it's a damned deal better than being seen as a part-time/martyr/volunteer. If you look at the elsewhere in Europe, Australia and the US- Nursing is even celebrated as a profession.
The key point of my above post which you failed to address is:
The NHS was failing decades ago, Covid has fatally accelerated its decline. The model was created over 75 years ago, and you can chuck more and more money at it but won't reverse its decline because the model no longer serves the needs of today's society. The model is fatally obsolete.
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Re: Walkout Wednesday! I'm on strike!

Post by Mr Moofo »

gremlin wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 4:42 pm
Mr Moofo wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 4:27 pm
@gremlin - Re hearing - send the better looking one of the Gremlin partnership to Specsavers - you can get a free hearing test there.
But my hearing is fine.... :think:
I'm not sure the the audiology department can treat narcissism. :-)
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Re: Walkout Wednesday! I'm on strike!

Post by Mr Moofo »

Docca wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 5:29 pm

Your hearing, as a non-urgent need will be amongst the easier stuff to charge against ( I say that as someone else with atrocious hearing!). Oh, and if your poor hearing was self-inflicted...etc,
My hearing is a genetic issue - People don't see hearing as being a disability - in fact, it is generally, something to be mocked , perhaps we are lazy and just not listening.
The audiologist was extremely good - but I did have to pull the "work for an essential (voluntary) service to get an appointment. In which I was the only attendee
I sympathise with you other hand re the retina issue - as I thought I had detached mine about 6 months ago. With the experiences I have had with Brighton Eye Hospital, stumping up the money was the only choice.

But the NHS is a service that we all pay a lot for - and have no choice but to do so. And get very bad value for money currently. And it isn't going to get any better when not is compulsory to worship it.
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Re: Walkout Wednesday! I'm on strike!

Post by Docca »

irie wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:13 pm
Docca wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 4:04 pm
irie wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 8:14 am
The key point of my above post which you failed to address is:


If you were to search the amount of times you make this type of statement, across threads- it’s quite remarkable.

In something of a coincidence, there might be occasions when some of your observations aren’t replied to- because they are not.

This isn’t an exam and you’re not that interesting.
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Re: Walkout Wednesday! I'm on strike!

Post by cheb »

Mr Moofo wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:44 pm

My hearing is a genetic issue - People don't see hearing as being a disability - in fact, it is generally, something to be mocked , perhaps we are lazy and just not listening.
The audiologist was extremely good - but I did have to pull the "work for an essential (voluntary) service to get an appointment. In which I was the only attendee
I sympathise with you other hand re the retina issue - as I thought I had detached mine about 6 months ago. With the experiences I have had with Brighton Eye Hospital, stumping up the money was the only choice.

But the NHS is a service that we all pay a lot for - and have no choice but to do so. And get very bad value for money currently. And it isn't going to get any better when not is compulsory to worship it.
Yep, and IME even by those who'd be classed as inclusive and caring/woke. I've bilateral hearing loss and was issued hearing aids on the NHS*. I got an upgrade to in ear types as my job requires me to use ear defenders.


*Not that I wear them much, they just make everything louder :lol: That's especially annoying outside in the wind up here as it frequently causes my tinnitus to worsen.
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Re: Walkout Wednesday! I'm on strike!

Post by Mr. Dazzle »

cheb wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:09 pm I got an upgrade to in ear types as my job requires me to use ear defenders.
Isn't that like wearing a shower cap to keep your syrup dry? :D
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Re: Walkout Wednesday! I'm on strike!

Post by irie »

Docca wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:58 pm
irie wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:13 pm
Docca wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 4:04 pm
If you were to search the amount of times you make this type of statement, across threads- it’s quite remarkable.

In something of a coincidence, there might be occasions when some of your observations aren’t replied to- because they are not.

This isn’t an exam and you’re not that interesting.
If you looked at the data you would see the truth for yourself.
"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people." - Giordano Bruno
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Re: Walkout Wednesday! I'm on strike!

Post by Count Steer »

Oh lor. Minefield. We have had aged relatives-in-law from the Lancashire cotton mills that would NOT wear hearing aids because they thought to be identified as deaf was to be seen as a bit of a simpleton. (Even now my SiL has a hearing aid arrangement that cost a lot of money but doesn't work very well...because 'people can't see I'm wearing it'). The thing about the folk that worked in the cotton mills is they all learned a combo of lip reading and sign language because the environment was, literally, deafening.

OTOH I had dealings with a chap that wore a badge advising that he had hearing difficulties so you knew to look at him when you spoke and not mumble.

It would be nice if some of the places you go and expect to chat, like out for a meal, paid a bit more attention and had tables where there was no 'ambient' music, general clatter and no cross-talk/cacophony from the next table. (Based on my experience today).
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Re: Walkout Wednesday! I'm on strike!

Post by Ant »

demographic wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 10:23 am Not quite the same thing at this end but...
Lad at work tested positive for Covid yesterday, wore a mask for the rest of the day cos hes got to get home as well. He's an apprentice so comes here on the bus but goes home on one of the vans.
No issues with that, but he's back today now. So we're working with olsomeone whoe testing positive and one of the lads has to fucking well drive him home again.

He's either not here tomorrow or I'm on another site so I'll more or less be on strike.
There's enough other sites to go to and I'm happy to come back when he's not testing positive.
But people are vaccinated, so shouldn't be a problem.
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Re: Walkout Wednesday! I'm on strike!

Post by Mr Moofo »

Count Steer wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:35 pm Oh lor. Minefield. We have had aged relatives-in-law from the Lancashire cotton mills that would NOT wear hearing aids because they thought to be identified as deaf was to be seen as a bit of a simpleton. (Even now my SiL has a hearing aid arrangement that cost a lot of money but doesn't work very well...because 'people can't see I'm wearing it'). The thing about the folk that worked in the cotton mills is they all learned a combo of lip reading and sign language because the environment was, literally, deafening.

OTOH I had dealings with a chap that wore a badge advising that he had hearing difficulties so you knew to look at him when you spoke and not mumble.

It would be nice if some of the places you go and expect to chat, like out for a meal, paid a bit more attention and had tables where there was no 'ambient' music, general clatter and no cross-talk/cacophony from the next table. (Based on my experience today).
Spot on
The trend for over loud background music ( I am fed up of asking restaurants to turn down music that the 20 something staff want at "their" level)
And the current vogue for hard floors/ hard wall coverings etc means there is no way I will hear anything in that restaurants.
Facemasks were a nightmare - as are people who mumble (my stepson) or put their hands over their mouths, and this current trend for starting conversation and talking quieter and quieter to draw people in ( Therapist esp - and Brighton is full of them)
Oddly, the Japanese, who can be a little brutal, were very kind - trying (and emphasis go trying) to speak clearer
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Re: Walkout Wednesday! I'm on strike!

Post by cheb »

Amusingly, to me anyway, the audiologist up here is one of the most softly spoken people I've met. Speaks clearly though, but quiet.
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Re: Walkout Wednesday! I'm on strike!

Post by Cousin Jack »

Docca wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 5:29 pm
I'd support free at the point of need for crisis care, with a graded model of funding proportionate to treatment need and income. Be under no illusion, but current system is drowning. The government will play the workforce holding the NHS to ransom over pay, but the truer truth is no government wants to take the NHS out back and shoot it- nor can we continue to fund it.

Your hearing, as a non-urgent need will be amongst the easier stuff to charge against ( I say that as someone else with atrocious hearing!). Oh, and if your poor hearing was self-inflicted...etc,
I suspect the government (all governments, of all flavours) know the system is broken, but it is a sacred cow, and it would be electoral suicide to do the stuff that needs doing. Perhaps they are hoping to go down the dentistry route, where a very substantial number of the better off go private. I have certainly used private (self-funded, I am too old/sick to get or afford insurance) for annoying stuff that the NHS would take years to get around too. I am happy to do that, but I couldn't afford a coronary bypass so I just hope the NHS hangs in there a bit longer.
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Re: Walkout Wednesday! I'm on strike!

Post by irie »

I have hearing loss, probably from riding motorcycles without adequate ear protection and perhaps also for genetic reasons. I can't ask my parents about their hearing because they both died long ago.

Mrs irie does hearing tests for me using her audiometer connected to her laptop. My latest test is below. I sent this to an online Dutch company and bought my hearing aids programmed for me online at about 60% of what I would pay in the UK. I wear the hearing aids (Oticon More) when in groups of people and in restaurants etc. The point is that once you have a chart like this you can buy online and save a lot of money.
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Re: Walkout Wednesday! I'm on strike!

Post by Mr Moofo »

(I will set up a hearing aid thread, so not to derail this one )
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Re: Walkout Wednesday! I'm on strike!

Post by irie »

Mr Moofo wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 9:35 pm (I will set up a hearing aid thread, so not to derail this one )
Please get my above post moved to the new thread no probs
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Re: Walkout Wednesday! I'm on strike!

Post by DefTrap »

Potter wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 3:11 am I've got loads of anecdotes or examples, but the truth is that the NHS (like any business or governing body that is rotten) is bad because of the people in it, not outside it.

If we applied the same excuses to the government (that the NHS uses) then the government are continually dreadful only because you haven't given them enough money, they need enough to cover the monstrous waste and ineptitude, plus enough to make sure the country is run ok too.
You can't remove the entirety of the NHS workforce overnight though, like you could with government.

Other big businesses have turned themselves around, cut costs, cut huge swathes of time-served heel-draggers. Why not the NHS?