G650GS - il-ħmar
-
- Posts: 755
- Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 8:35 am
- Location: Malta
- Has thanked: 310 times
- Been thanked: 568 times
Re: G650GS - il-ħmar
So, last night Jules popped round and we spent 3 hours together digging to find faults...
We tested many many things. All connections and relays tested fine for continuity, but Jules's experienced eye said the corrosion on the legs which I'd dismissed was enough that they could be playing up. Time for the fibreglass pen and in the worst cases a tiny diamond file.
We then put everything back together and refit the battery to see what we'd achieved.
The 7v (but very low current) on the brakelight circuit had gone away (probably leakage across unrelated circuits inside the diode box). The headlight not switching off when cranking was fixed (probably a non-operable load relief relay). The crank-no-start with the stand down was fixed (probably a non-operable motronic relay). The passing light switch was still not working so it got the same treatment of opening up and cleaning and, despite it not looking that bad inside, this fixed it.
Jules was still suspicious of the sidestand switch. It should earth one circuit when up, and another circuit when down. Both circuits should allow the bike to start and run in neutral, but only the "stand up" circuit should allow you to go into gear. Moving the stand slowly from one position to the other made the relay pack click like crazy where it should click once at the change from one circuit to the other. This showed the switch is intermittent internally, giving the bike neither earth at various points. Considering the stand switch was loose due to a missing washer, this could easily cause the bike to get neither earth while running and cut out. That's been bridged for the time being, so the running issue should be fixed. I'll stick a note to myself on the screen as a reminder to lift the stand.
I'll put the bike back together tonight or maybe tomorrow, and go for a ride. With a bit of luck and a following wind, it should now be good electrically!
So what's left?
The cracked rear subframe turns out to be only part #2 shown here. Sucks that it broke, great that it's a bolt-in subsection!
The bike has had a battery boil over at some point, which has resulted in part #11 shown here melting. It's come apart about where the "10" is, leaving the airbox loose and some very weird crumbly plastic all around there. It'll get either a new #11 or maybe a whole airbox, as I've yet to inspect the rest of the box for damage.
Battery acid also spilled down on to the coils, which don't look pretty and have lost the connector tabs. For now though the connectors are staying put, so I will leave it alone. It will however be a first place to look for any future running issues.
It weeps oil from hose #11. It's gone brittle over the last 10 years of having hot oil inside it, causing the clips at each end to get loose and no longer seal. It's a length of oil hose about a foot long with a bend at each end. Hoping a length of normal hose will do it since BMW want 35€ for a new one, and I doubt a used one would be any better.
Probably it wants a new handlebar (the fancy replacement is lower than I'd like and doesn't feel straight).
The left footpeg subframe is still bent, but I'm now more inclined to just beat it flatter.
After all that, I can take it for a proper ride and find out what else is wrong with it
We tested many many things. All connections and relays tested fine for continuity, but Jules's experienced eye said the corrosion on the legs which I'd dismissed was enough that they could be playing up. Time for the fibreglass pen and in the worst cases a tiny diamond file.
We then put everything back together and refit the battery to see what we'd achieved.
The 7v (but very low current) on the brakelight circuit had gone away (probably leakage across unrelated circuits inside the diode box). The headlight not switching off when cranking was fixed (probably a non-operable load relief relay). The crank-no-start with the stand down was fixed (probably a non-operable motronic relay). The passing light switch was still not working so it got the same treatment of opening up and cleaning and, despite it not looking that bad inside, this fixed it.
Jules was still suspicious of the sidestand switch. It should earth one circuit when up, and another circuit when down. Both circuits should allow the bike to start and run in neutral, but only the "stand up" circuit should allow you to go into gear. Moving the stand slowly from one position to the other made the relay pack click like crazy where it should click once at the change from one circuit to the other. This showed the switch is intermittent internally, giving the bike neither earth at various points. Considering the stand switch was loose due to a missing washer, this could easily cause the bike to get neither earth while running and cut out. That's been bridged for the time being, so the running issue should be fixed. I'll stick a note to myself on the screen as a reminder to lift the stand.
I'll put the bike back together tonight or maybe tomorrow, and go for a ride. With a bit of luck and a following wind, it should now be good electrically!
So what's left?
The cracked rear subframe turns out to be only part #2 shown here. Sucks that it broke, great that it's a bolt-in subsection!
The bike has had a battery boil over at some point, which has resulted in part #11 shown here melting. It's come apart about where the "10" is, leaving the airbox loose and some very weird crumbly plastic all around there. It'll get either a new #11 or maybe a whole airbox, as I've yet to inspect the rest of the box for damage.
Battery acid also spilled down on to the coils, which don't look pretty and have lost the connector tabs. For now though the connectors are staying put, so I will leave it alone. It will however be a first place to look for any future running issues.
It weeps oil from hose #11. It's gone brittle over the last 10 years of having hot oil inside it, causing the clips at each end to get loose and no longer seal. It's a length of oil hose about a foot long with a bend at each end. Hoping a length of normal hose will do it since BMW want 35€ for a new one, and I doubt a used one would be any better.
Probably it wants a new handlebar (the fancy replacement is lower than I'd like and doesn't feel straight).
The left footpeg subframe is still bent, but I'm now more inclined to just beat it flatter.
After all that, I can take it for a proper ride and find out what else is wrong with it
- weeksy
- Site Admin
- Posts: 23421
- Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:08 pm
- Has thanked: 5451 times
- Been thanked: 13087 times
Re: G650GS - il-ħmar
Lol I shouldn't laugh but how in fucks name did an experienced person like you end up with this bloody nightmare
-
- Posts: 755
- Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 8:35 am
- Location: Malta
- Has thanked: 310 times
- Been thanked: 568 times
Re: G650GS - il-ħmar
IDK how it works, but there's an electrically-operated decomp valve on these bikes. If the valve or the contorl of it were lost, it would definitely be a pig to start.
-
- Posts: 755
- Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 8:35 am
- Location: Malta
- Has thanked: 310 times
- Been thanked: 568 times
Re: G650GS - il-ħmar
You know that expression that you buy the seller not the vehicle? Well, the seller seemed like a really nice guy.
Honestly, if I'd taken the bike for a test ride I'd have run a mile. I don't like to do that without insurance, so that's about how I ended up here.
I am learning though - I will never buy a used bike (without riding it) ever again.
- Taipan
- Posts: 13948
- Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:48 pm
- Location: Essex Riviera!
- Has thanked: 15954 times
- Been thanked: 10246 times
Re: G650GS - il-ħmar
My mate bought a flood damaged bike that had a lot of problems just like this. Wonder if it's been for a swim or dropped on a river wade etc?
-
- Posts: 755
- Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 8:35 am
- Location: Malta
- Has thanked: 310 times
- Been thanked: 568 times
Re: G650GS - il-ħmar
The seller kept it in a garage, and I consider this important in a used bike. However it's becoming clear to me that it didn't always live in a garage.
That's one of the problems, the other is the fact a battery has at some point pooped the bed.
-
- Posts: 755
- Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 8:35 am
- Location: Malta
- Has thanked: 310 times
- Been thanked: 568 times
Re: G650GS - il-ħmar
Last night was about 4 hours spent putting the bike back together. Every uninsulated connector on the bike (bar the headlight as taking it apart looks a ballache) was sprayed with contact cleaner and scrubbed with an old toothbrush before being put back together with some dielectric grease.
Fairings reassembled, including scrounging up the correct stainless M5*14 and 16 torx screws from places they aren't visible and fitting where they are, to be replaced by similar Allen bolts where hidden.
Striped, cleaned, regreased sidestand. It doesn't hardly have slop once that's done, it just wasn't tightened properly. Not all that surprising since there's no lucknut or similar to stop it backing off.
The two big parts of the airbox (1&5) will be fine, but the two parts which clamp it together (4&11) are toast, although even so I don't see where unfiltered air could get in.Probablyy just as well to get a whole used assembly and take what I need, as they sell cheap.
I reckon we're getting there. It starts in all correct scenarios, and every button and switch works. Wound that up at past 23:30, so a test ride for the intermittent fault is still pending. Fingers crossed!
Fairings reassembled, including scrounging up the correct stainless M5*14 and 16 torx screws from places they aren't visible and fitting where they are, to be replaced by similar Allen bolts where hidden.
Striped, cleaned, regreased sidestand. It doesn't hardly have slop once that's done, it just wasn't tightened properly. Not all that surprising since there's no lucknut or similar to stop it backing off.
The two big parts of the airbox (1&5) will be fine, but the two parts which clamp it together (4&11) are toast, although even so I don't see where unfiltered air could get in.Probablyy just as well to get a whole used assembly and take what I need, as they sell cheap.
I reckon we're getting there. It starts in all correct scenarios, and every button and switch works. Wound that up at past 23:30, so a test ride for the intermittent fault is still pending. Fingers crossed!
-
- Posts: 755
- Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 8:35 am
- Location: Malta
- Has thanked: 310 times
- Been thanked: 568 times
Re: G650GS - il-ħmar
Took the mule to collect my kid from school yesterday. Only about 3k's each way, but happy to say it ran lovely and everything worked including the radiator fan.
It'll be spared that duty for a while though, since the topbox is basically floating on not much until I get that frame section and kiddo can only barely reach the footpegs until the footpeg lowering brackets (to be turned upside down) arrive from China.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/403861428550
It'll be spared that duty for a while though, since the topbox is basically floating on not much until I get that frame section and kiddo can only barely reach the footpegs until the footpeg lowering brackets (to be turned upside down) arrive from China.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/403861428550
- Taipan
- Posts: 13948
- Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:48 pm
- Location: Essex Riviera!
- Has thanked: 15954 times
- Been thanked: 10246 times
-
- Posts: 755
- Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 8:35 am
- Location: Malta
- Has thanked: 310 times
- Been thanked: 568 times
Re: G650GS - il-ħmar
There were so many bandits in this story that it's hard to be certain which fault caused which symptoms. Best guesses...
Once everything else was fixed, swinging the stand up and down made the relay pack click like mad; it should click only once between up and down. This was very likely the cause of the intermittent cut-outs while riding. The switch likely went intermittent just because 11 years and 30k miles. It was then missing a plastic washer between the switch and circlip so it could vibrate on its mounting post, and the sidestand itself was missing a bump stop, allowing everything to bounce around according to road conditions (yes, in Malta) and/or engine vibes (yes, on a 650 single).
The crank-no-start with the stand down may have been related to the above, however the fault was always present, so more likely the (what I thought was slight) corrosion on the legs of the motornics relay was causing it not to energize. Similarly, the headlight not disabling on startup was most likely the load relief relay unable to energize. I'll never know for sure.
The brakelight not working but the wire having 7v on it was likely due to corrosion on the legs of the diode pack forming a new track between the brakelight circuit (two diodes are used in that box to tell the ABS module which brake is being applied) and a 220 Ohm resistor used for something else on the starting circuit. And/or because the brake bulb contacts were dirty. One or both of those will also be what caused the 7.5A fuse to fail and get replaced with a 10A.
All that and the knackered steering bearings, cracked subframe, broken airbox, 10psi in the tyres, and various other faults speak to this bike having missed out on a lot of love in the last couple/few years!
-
- Posts: 755
- Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 8:35 am
- Location: Malta
- Has thanked: 310 times
- Been thanked: 568 times
Re: G650GS - il-ħmar
The fun continues
I had noticed a clunk around the front end on my little test ride. Tried wobbling the airbox which I know to be not properly mounted, but it didn't seem to be able to make much noise.
Not sure what it might be, I go around the bike hitting it with the palm of my hand looking for a noise. Engine bar rings like a bell... The bolt holding the top of it to the frame is loose. It goes right through the frame to the other side...
The upper engine guard bolt and the lower one, which also hold the top and bottom of the frame together, were holding on only by virtue of having nyloc nuts.
Yep, that'd make a noise.
I had noticed a clunk around the front end on my little test ride. Tried wobbling the airbox which I know to be not properly mounted, but it didn't seem to be able to make much noise.
Not sure what it might be, I go around the bike hitting it with the palm of my hand looking for a noise. Engine bar rings like a bell... The bolt holding the top of it to the frame is loose. It goes right through the frame to the other side...
The upper engine guard bolt and the lower one, which also hold the top and bottom of the frame together, were holding on only by virtue of having nyloc nuts.
Yep, that'd make a noise.
-
- Posts: 755
- Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 8:35 am
- Location: Malta
- Has thanked: 310 times
- Been thanked: 568 times
Re: G650GS - il-ħmar
The hits keep coming
Took the Mule to work yesterday and happy to say the clunk is gone
It does have a pretty good oil leak though, more than just the hose on the reservoir tank. I am a bit more than 50/50 that whoever did the last oil change did not change the O-Ring on the filter cover, and that's where it's leaking from. In that case, an oil change which I would have done soon anyway can be expanded to include sorting that hose and replacing all the seals - which should be done every time anyway.
I had a dig into the turn signal situation. The indicators on these are assembled as follows: pass the tiny spade connectors through the stalk, bolt the stalk to the bike, fit the body over the stalk, clip the reflector to the tiny spades, push the reflector in (it clips the stalk to the body), fit the lens over top of it all by a clip on the inside and a tiny screw on the outside.
The front indicators are already replica parts, one stalk is busted and one clear lens has a missing clip. They were also fitted with the body upside down so the drain hole became a fill hole. The rears are original, but the bodies sun bleached and one tinted lens has a missing clip. They all work OK, but there's just enough broken stuff that to get it sorted nicely means replacing the whole lot. At some later date, I may get some of the replica LED indicators, change the flasher relay, and fit diodes to the dashboard lamp. Not much of a priority, but some day!
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/394262332939
Took the Mule to work yesterday and happy to say the clunk is gone
It does have a pretty good oil leak though, more than just the hose on the reservoir tank. I am a bit more than 50/50 that whoever did the last oil change did not change the O-Ring on the filter cover, and that's where it's leaking from. In that case, an oil change which I would have done soon anyway can be expanded to include sorting that hose and replacing all the seals - which should be done every time anyway.
I had a dig into the turn signal situation. The indicators on these are assembled as follows: pass the tiny spade connectors through the stalk, bolt the stalk to the bike, fit the body over the stalk, clip the reflector to the tiny spades, push the reflector in (it clips the stalk to the body), fit the lens over top of it all by a clip on the inside and a tiny screw on the outside.
The front indicators are already replica parts, one stalk is busted and one clear lens has a missing clip. They were also fitted with the body upside down so the drain hole became a fill hole. The rears are original, but the bodies sun bleached and one tinted lens has a missing clip. They all work OK, but there's just enough broken stuff that to get it sorted nicely means replacing the whole lot. At some later date, I may get some of the replica LED indicators, change the flasher relay, and fit diodes to the dashboard lamp. Not much of a priority, but some day!
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/394262332939
- mangocrazy
- Posts: 6901
- Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:58 pm
- Has thanked: 2405 times
- Been thanked: 3630 times
Re: G650GS - il-ħmar
The more you look, the more you see...
There is no cloud, just somebody else's computer.
- weeksy
- Site Admin
- Posts: 23421
- Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:08 pm
- Has thanked: 5451 times
- Been thanked: 13087 times
Re: G650GS - il-ħmar
I'd be tempted to see a chain around it and it hanging off the side of a ship as an anchor
-
- Posts: 755
- Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 8:35 am
- Location: Malta
- Has thanked: 310 times
- Been thanked: 568 times
Re: G650GS - il-ħmar
Yep, and I haven't touched the rear linkage, wheel bearings, or swing arm bearings yet.
I had that stage at the start, but between sheer bloody mindedness and a realisation that actually it's the ideal bike for me right now, I've just about come through that.
-
- Posts: 755
- Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 8:35 am
- Location: Malta
- Has thanked: 310 times
- Been thanked: 568 times
Re: G650GS - il-ħmar
Here's the bluetooth subframe. It was in 3 pieces when Jules and I opened it up with one ear having been held in only by the screws through it from the top, the other "ear" twisted off with pliers very easily for 5 pieces in total
I've uploaded some more images to imgur.
I could upload them one by one to the thread, but I think it makes more sense for those who are interested to view them in the imgur gallery.
I've uploaded some more images to imgur.
I could upload them one by one to the thread, but I think it makes more sense for those who are interested to view them in the imgur gallery.
-
- Posts: 755
- Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 8:35 am
- Location: Malta
- Has thanked: 310 times
- Been thanked: 568 times
Re: G650GS - il-ħmar
Since the last post there have been a few evenings in the garage taking bits off for a clean and relube, but nothing major and thankfully no further faults found!
The first tank of fuel (about 12 litres) has now gone through it, and it's getting an oil and filter change tomorrow. That's as a general maintenance, because I don't know what grade is in there and it's meant to have a somewhat uncommon grade at 15w50, and in a hope that the engine might run a little quieter, smoother, etc. I'm probably deluded in that, nobody ever called these engines "refined" yet.
As well as the two broken lens clips and one broken stalk, I also noticed the orange on the front bulbs is wearing off and so they shine a bit white. So, there's a set of bunch original LED indicators in a box in Germany which will solve the mixed up indicators on the bike. With a bit of patience I grabbed them at 15€ a piece, much less than the 50-ish for new ones, and only about twice the price of Uncle Ali's copies.
YouTube video comparison of OEM incandescent bulbs versus the LEDs:
One of those sets came on the original number plate hanger from an S1000RR, and there should be 3 rubber grommets on it that I can repurpose to stop the brake light wobbling so much. Winner!
It's also getting an original tool kit, newly coated footrests and footrest hangers which aren't bent, and a clutch cable as the one on the bike is smooth, but stretched near the end of its adjustment.
The first tank of fuel (about 12 litres) has now gone through it, and it's getting an oil and filter change tomorrow. That's as a general maintenance, because I don't know what grade is in there and it's meant to have a somewhat uncommon grade at 15w50, and in a hope that the engine might run a little quieter, smoother, etc. I'm probably deluded in that, nobody ever called these engines "refined" yet.
As well as the two broken lens clips and one broken stalk, I also noticed the orange on the front bulbs is wearing off and so they shine a bit white. So, there's a set of bunch original LED indicators in a box in Germany which will solve the mixed up indicators on the bike. With a bit of patience I grabbed them at 15€ a piece, much less than the 50-ish for new ones, and only about twice the price of Uncle Ali's copies.
YouTube video comparison of OEM incandescent bulbs versus the LEDs:
One of those sets came on the original number plate hanger from an S1000RR, and there should be 3 rubber grommets on it that I can repurpose to stop the brake light wobbling so much. Winner!
It's also getting an original tool kit, newly coated footrests and footrest hangers which aren't bent, and a clutch cable as the one on the bike is smooth, but stretched near the end of its adjustment.
- Taipan
- Posts: 13948
- Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:48 pm
- Location: Essex Riviera!
- Has thanked: 15954 times
- Been thanked: 10246 times
Re: G650GS - il-ħmar
My F800 had the wobbly back light. ISTR there's a string of option as you cant just tighten it as such?
-
- Posts: 755
- Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 8:35 am
- Location: Malta
- Has thanked: 310 times
- Been thanked: 568 times
Re: G650GS - il-ħmar
I had it apart a few weekends ago.
There are 3x M6 studs coming out the brake light, spacers #5 go inside rubber grommets #8, with a washer #7 on either side, then nut #9 secures that to the plastic tray.
Part #6 is some kind of split plastic washer, I guess it's to soften the edge of the plastic. Can't remember seeing it on mine but then I didn't know it was meant to be there so I wasn't looking for it.
There's two problems with the assembly. First is that the rubbers are sort of hollow, and so allow too much movement. You can see it on this one: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272576358562
Second is that the whole lot is bolted through a plastic part, which itself flexes. I'll replace those washers first since they're no good anyway plus one is split on my bike. Probably that'll be ok, if not I'll look into mounting it from something more solid.
The commonly suggested fix is to add spacers such as M10 washers over the spacers to compress the rubbers more or grind the spacers shorter, but where the rubbers are hollow, there's limited success to be had there.