self driving vehicle on UK motorways in 2023

[Noggin]

Is it even possible to to regulate against that sort of stupid?

Not without a culling

[Rockburner]

I honestly haven't read all of the thread, but, how many of the incidents whilst using autopilot or self-drive stuff are due to drivers being stupid? Like the advert -

why are you leaving the driver seat to go make a cup of tea?
Well, the camper has self-drive, so I don't need to be there!

Is it even possible to to regulate against that sort of stupid?

Actually - to answer seriously: the only way to legislate against that sort of stupidity is to completely remove the entire concept of personal driving. Since any single person has the capability to act in a stupid manner (reasons are another discussion), the only way to genuinely prevent stupid behaviour is to utterly prevent it. No more personal cars, all vehicle transport to be completely controlled from central source (bus drivers make mistakes).... etc etc.

This is one of the reasons that the 'Vision Zero' for road deaths is somewhat flawed: it's a fantastic thing to aim for, but it's simply not achievable while you let an easily distractable fleshy bag of emotions loose in a tonne and a half of steel.

[The Spin Doctor]

I honestly haven't read all of the thread, but, how many of the incidents whilst using autopilot or self-drive stuff are due to drivers being stupid? Like the advert -

why are you leaving the driver seat to go make a cup of tea?
Well, the camper has self-drive, so I don't need to be there!

Is it even possible to to regulate against that sort of stupid?

If a system lets you do something stupid, then it's a badly designed system. Right now, self-drive is under active development. Unfortunately, Tesla is using the drivers as guineapigs to iron out the bugs because it is very difficult for a human to imagine the numerous ways another human can f*ck things up when designing the software.

The other issue is one of 'attention'. If you're not actually engaged directly in the driving task it's very difficult to maintain attention when attempting to monitor the vehicle in self-driving mode, even when you know you should and you're trying to be responsible. It's not just people wandering off to make a cuppa who fail to spot that the autopilot is about to crash. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 7521003791

There will always be the odd high profile Darwin Awards winner type of crash like the driver who was in the passenger seat watching a Harry Potter movie, but as far as I can tell the vast majority of the crashes and collisions have happened in ordinary driving. That's the pattern for crashes generally - there are a few outliers who do something daft, but the vast majority of crashes happen to drivers who up to the moment things went wrong were driving sensibly and within speed limits.

[The Spin Doctor]

Actually - to answer seriously: the only way to legislate against that sort of stupidity is to completely remove the entire concept of personal driving. Since any single person has the capability to act in a stupid manner (reasons are another discussion), the only way to genuinely prevent stupid behaviour is to utterly prevent it. No more personal cars, all vehicle transport to be completely controlled from central source (bus drivers make mistakes).... etc etc.

This is one of the reasons that the 'Vision Zero' for road deaths is somewhat flawed: it's a fantastic thing to aim for, but it's simply not achievable while you let an easily distractable fleshy bag of emotions loose in a tonne and a half of steel.

I agree that if you remove the personal element of driving, but there's a serious risk that if you centralise control, whilst mistakes may be many fewer you have the power to make even bigger mistakes... air traffic control?

And of course, automated cars are still going to be sharing the road with non-automated pedestrians and cyclists, and it's going to be decades before all the non-automated cars are off the road. In parallel with research into automation, a programme of getting improved driver AIDS into cars and bikes should be happening. There's adaptive cruise control appearing on bikes but what about blind spot detection systems for just one? Rather than trying to make fancy HUD displays in helmets, a haptic feedback system that vibrates the bars could be built-in to bikes almost immediately.

[Horse]

https://www-teslarati-com.cdn.ampprojec ... a-fsd/amp/

California passed a new law banning Tesla from calling its software Full Self-Driving (FSD). Although Tesla has never claimed that FSD was fully autonomous, the electric–maker is developing the technology for fully autonomous vehicles. Until its vehicles are fully autonomous, drivers must be alert and ready to take over at all times when engaging FSD or Autopilot.

California lawmakers, however, disagree with the labels of FSD. Senate Bill 1398 was one of the hundreds that Governor Newsom signed into law. The new law takes effect in 2023 and specifically targets Tesla’s name for its software. The bill was sponsored by Senate Transportation Committee Chair Lena Gonzalez, who claimed that Tesla falsely advertised its tech and that doing so was a safety issue.

The bill was sponsored after the California Department of Motor Vehicles claimed that Tesla’s FSD was “false advertising.”

An excerpt from the new law reads as follows:

“A dealer or manufacturer shall not sell any new passenger vehicle that is equipped with any partial driving automation feature or provide any software update or other vehicle upgrade that adds any partial driving automation feature, without, at the time of delivering or upgrading the vehicle, providing the buyer or owner with a distinct notice that provides the name of the feature and clearly describes the functions and limitations of the feature.”

“A manufacturer or dealer shall not name any partial driving automation feature, or describe any partial driving automation feature in marketing materials, using language that implies or would otherwise lead a reasonable person to believe, that the feature allows the vehicle to function as an autonomous vehicle, as defined in Section 38750, or otherwise has functionality not actually included in the feature. A violation of this subdivision shall be considered a misleading advertisement for the purposes of Section 11713.”

[The Spin Doctor]

Looks like legislators are starting to lose patience with Musk

[Lutin]

Tesla’s Autopilot runs from German police with driver asleep

Tesla’s self-driving Autopilot technology has proven to be proficient at evading the law. After a Tesla Model 3 refused to stop at a checkpoint in Germany, police were obliged to give chase.

The incident happened on an autobahn in Bamberg, Germany. Police tried to pull over the Tesla for a traffic stop. After neither the driver nor the Tesla answered, officers pursued the car at 110 kilometers per hour to try and stop the vehicle. Fifteen minutes into the chase, the driver awoke and pulled over.

According to a Bamberg traffic police statement released on December 29, the driver showed druglike behaviour during inspection. The motorist had exploited the steering wheel weight to fool Tesla’s safety system into thinking hands were on the steering wheel, prompting the motor to keep running while the driver was asleep.

The motorist was charged with endangering road traffic and compelled to surrender his driver’s license pending a court hearing. Luckily, no one was hurt during the chase, but things could have ended badly.

[Horse]

Self-driving for the best part of 30 miles without crashing, but does anyone applaud that? No. Picky picky picky

[DefTrap]

Tesla’s Autopilot runs from German police with driver asleep

Tesla’s self-driving Autopilot technology has proven to be proficient at evading the law. After a Tesla Model 3 refused to stop at a checkpoint in Germany, police were obliged to give chase.

The incident happened on an autobahn in Bamberg, Germany. Police tried to pull over the Tesla for a traffic stop. After neither the driver nor the Tesla answered, officers pursued the car at 110 kilometers per hour to try and stop the vehicle. Fifteen minutes into the chase, the driver awoke and pulled over.

According to a Bamberg traffic police statement released on December 29, the driver showed druglike behaviour during inspection. The motorist had exploited the steering wheel weight to fool Tesla’s safety system into thinking hands were on the steering wheel, prompting the motor to keep running while the driver was asleep.

The motorist was charged with endangering road traffic and compelled to surrender his driver’s license pending a court hearing. Luckily, no one was hurt during the chase, but things could have ended badly.

Ultimately (well maybe not yet) this is the whole point of a self driving vehicle. If I'm going to trust it to get me home without me, strictly speaking, being 100% in control and 100% alert, then there's not much point. And if you're not going to pay attention properly you may as well be asleep /pissed / waving-your-johnson-out-the-quarter-light etc.

[Mussels]

Self-driving for the best part of 30 miles without crashing, but does anyone applaud that? No. Picky picky picky

Teslas must come with some pretty impressive evasive driving techniques built in, that or the police had a sweepstake going on how long it would run for before hitting anything.

[Dodgy69]

I can only think that autonomous vehicles are being introduced solely to get more vehicles off the road. I wouldn't want to share the road with them, what else is their purpose.

[MyLittleStudPony]

Surely driving while asleep or nicely off your napper is the holy grail of self driving cars.

Don't let the fearzoners stand in the way of progress.

[Cousin Jack]

Surely driving while asleep or nicely off your napper is the holy grail of self driving cars.

Don't let the fearzoners stand in the way of progress.

Entirely agree. Since the m'ways are nice and safe, leave them for the fallible humans. Those ultra-safe self-driving cars can use the nasty complicated roads.

[Horse]

I wouldn't want to share the road with them

Depending where you are in the country, you may well have encountered them without being aware of it. On-road testing in the uk has been happening for years.

eg

[Felix]

Progress

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... e-64350096

Nah, 22 twats. Bus software goes tits up and you are spoon fed for the rest of your life while shitting in a bag, Who is to blame. Bus company, Manufacturers or program writers. God knows but they will all be arguing who is to blame but apparently its the future.

[Mr. Dazzle]

And that's different to a human driver......how? If there's a bus crash you can say nearly with certainty that human error was a factor.

Assigning blame won't make your dinner any easier to chew.

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Maj ... 160959/amp

[Mussels]

Progress

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... e-64350096

Nah, 22 twats. Bus software goes tits up and you are spoon fed for the rest of your life while shitting in a bag, Who is to blame. Bus company, Manufacturers or program writers. God knows but they will all be arguing who is to blame but apparently its the future.

At least it's one less witness for their people trafficking.

[The Spin Doctor]

Progress

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... e-64350096

Nah, 22 twats. Bus software goes tits up and you are spoon fed for the rest of your life while shitting in a bag, Who is to blame. Bus company, Manufacturers or program writers. God knows but they will all be arguing who is to blame but apparently its the future.

The trial is over a "...14-mile route in mixed traffic at speeds of up to 50mph... the vehicles have sensors enabling them to run on pre-determined routes without a driver having to take control." That's very different from aiming a car at a destination over a totally unknown route.

And the answer to your question is "The UK government is also looking at an interim measure in which insurance companies liable for accidents in self-driving vehicles would be those covering the car company which obtained the self-driving authorisation... in the event of a claim, it would be insurance companies that would be financially liable, rather than the driver, for accidents in self-driving cars that occur when the vehicle is authorised to be in self-driving mode. Of course, if the driver overrode the settings, and was in autopilot mode when the vehicle wasn't supposed to be, then it would be the driver bearing the brunt."

Elevenses 297 Sun 18 December https://ko-fi.com/post/Elevenses-297-Su ... -B0B3H4IQ8

[Felix]

At least it's one less witness for their people trafficking.

You talking about Ann Gloag? I am sure she has left/retired from Stagecoach.

[Horse]

"The UK government is also looking at an interim measure in which insurance companies liable... "

Which is why, AFAIK, every UK consortium developing automated vehicles has included a major insurance company.

And, re drivers, probably why the next load of EU vehicle regs (which the UK will get, Brexit or not) include driver monitoring systems. ie the automated system will (should) only operate within certain limits and those will (should) allow sufficient time (for some reason, 12 secs springs to mind, but I don't know why) to allow a driver to 'get up to speed' and retake control - or the vehicle to stop if that doesn't happen. 《 Don't quote me as a reliable source on any of that, because I've not read the details, only heard about it.