R9 incoming next year?

[Dodgy69]

When the machines are closely matched, the sport is always better. ( Dodgy69 2023.)

[Yorick]

My FZR400 was about 60bhp, top speed was 135mph (worked out from rpm and gearing) and I was far from the slowest bike on track, even at Snetterton I was passing people on the straights, it was a great little bike, you could get on the power really early coming out of the corners.

You can do that on any bike, if you have any skill.

But it'll still be shit yeah?

To me a trackday is about using skill and judgement and pushing the limits a bit.
Whacking the throttle open any time you like takes no skill.
Feathering the throttle and sensing the grip is exciting for me.

[Dodgy69]

Does traction control stop highsiding, I really don't know and wouldn't want to test.

[The Spin Doctor]

I loved racing my 60ish bhp Desmo Due... against other 60ish bhp Desmo Due bikes.

I'd have been shitting it in the fast group of a trackday against 200bhp thous.

...and if you're not trying to win the group, WTF are you doing out there?

I remember Damon Hill toasting the bike 1100cc four strokes at Brands Indy...

...on a TZR250.

[Skub]

I remember Damon Hill toasting the bike 1100cc four strokes at Brands Indy...

...on a TZR250.

I've posted it before back in the old place,but worth a watch anytime as a demonstration of what a little bike can do in certain situations.

Number 30 is an old workmate of mine back in the 80s,Gary Cowan. A major talent sadly cut short by a life changing injury.

About 2.15 mins in,if you want to cut the waffle.

[ChrisW]

Hah! That first (second?) corner pass on the brakes!

Didn't even notice than Haslam was on a factory RGV until part two...

[Supermofo]

Usually a smattering of 250s and CB500s at Brands Indy but that's a perfect little bike track

[The Spin Doctor]

I've posted it before back in the old place,but worth a watch anytime as a demonstration of what a little bike can do in certain situations.

Number 30 is an old workmate of mine back in the 80s,Gary Cowan. A major talent sadly cut short by a life changing injury.

TZ250 I should have said...

That's a splendid video... I enjoyed it last time you posted it, and enjoyed it again...

I do remember Gary Cowan, sad to hear about the injury though. I didn't know that.

[Bigjawa]

I've posted it before back in the old place,but worth a watch anytime as a demonstration of what a little bike can do in certain situations.

Number 30 is an old workmate of mine back in the 80s,Gary Cowan. A major talent sadly cut short by a life changing injury.

About 2.15 mins in,if you want to cut the waffle.

IIRC that was a straight from the crate spec TZ, he had tried the trick stuff Yamaha sent over but couldn't get the thing to run right?

[Skub]

IIRC that was a straight from the crate spec TZ, he had tried the trick stuff Yamaha sent over but couldn't get the thing to run right?

Could well be. I don't recall for certain.

[Couchy]

A little bike doesn’t have the weight and handling advantage these days like they used to have and with the big bikes having 200hp they are massively faster. When I started Trackdays in the late 90’s an RS250 could run happily in the fast group, these days the pace is faster and it would be ok in inters but completely outclassed in a fast group. Even an average rider with 200hp puts in a good lap time and most fast groups are full of 200hp bikes and people that have been riding them a long while. Maybe not race pace but still putting in good times, the closing speeds on the straights are also massive if you’re on a bike doing 100mph.

[Bigyin]

A little bike doesn’t have the weight and handling advantage these days like they used to have and with the big bikes having 200hp they are massively faster. When I started Trackdays in the late 90’s an RS250 could run happily in the fast group, these days the pace is faster and it would be ok in inters but completely outclassed in a fast group. Even an average rider with 200hp puts in a good lap time and most fast groups are full of 200hp bikes and people that have been riding them a long while. Maybe not race pace but still putting in good times, the closing speeds on the straights are also massive if you’re on a bike doing 100mph.

To put that in context about 20 ago my mate Bill was top ten in the MZ 250 class at Bemsee and we went to Snetterton on a track day for some engine testing as I was his pit gopher during the race season . At the briefing at the start of the day the other riders in the fast group were warned about Bill being on track with them as the main straight he would be a lot slower. They were also warned he would be passing them on corners on their 1000cc rocket ships

The day went on with assorted people coming into the garage laughing as Bill had passed them on the outside of Corams flat out with everything on the deck. They would pass him on the straights

I doubt they would let him out in Fast nowadays

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

A little bike doesn’t have the weight and handling advantage these days like they used to have and with the big bikes having 200hp they are massively faster. When I started Trackdays in the late 90’s an RS250 could run happily in the fast group, these days the pace is faster and it would be ok in inters but completely outclassed in a fast group. Even an average rider with 200hp puts in a good lap time and most fast groups are full of 200hp bikes and people that have been riding them a long while. Maybe not race pace but still putting in good times, the closing speeds on the straights are also massive if you’re on a bike doing 100mph.

This is true, I had a 15 year break in trackdays from 2004 to 2019, I was surprised by the increase in pace and how many were riding big bikes, in 2004 it was nearly all 400s and 600s, now there's a lot of 1000s and people are screaming the knackers out of them in fast group.

[Yorick]

A little bike doesn’t have the weight and handling advantage these days like they used to have and with the big bikes having 200hp they are massively faster. When I started Trackdays in the late 90’s an RS250 could run happily in the fast group, these days the pace is faster and it would be ok in inters but completely outclassed in a fast group. Even an average rider with 200hp puts in a good lap time and most fast groups are full of 200hp bikes and people that have been riding them a long while. Maybe not race pace but still putting in good times, the closing speeds on the straights are also massive if you’re on a bike doing 100mph.

This is true, I had a 15 year break in trackdays from 2004 to 2019, I was surprised by the increase in pace and how many were riding big bikes, in 2004 it was nearly all 400s and 600s, now there's a lot of 1000s and people are screaming the knackers out of them in fast group.

It's a helluva buzz trying to master and control a litre monster

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

It's a helluva buzz trying to master and control a litre monster

I did a trackday in 2000 on my R1 at Snetterton, it was great but knackering, at Cadwell it would have been a real handful, I honestly think that at Cadwell I'd be faster on a 400, at Snetterton a GSXR750 would be more than quick enough for me.

[Yorick]

It's a helluva buzz trying to master and control a litre monster

I did a trackday in 2000 on my R1 at Snetterton, it was great but knackering, at Cadwell it would have been a real handful, I honestly think that at Cadwell I'd be faster on a 400, at Snetterton a GSXR750 would be more than quick enough for me.

Yup. They're hard work physically but rewarding. I kept my upper body strong and did 20 trackdays a year to get bike fit.

At Cadwell my fave overtake places were braking into Park, exit of Gooseneck, braking into Mansfield, over the Mountain and into the Hairpin.

None of them where power counts

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

Gooseneck and Mansfield are brave moves, on a 400 I was mostly overtaking going into Park or Coppice, I wasn't braking much, sometimes coming out of Charlies and occasionally between Coppice and Charlies when I'd carried a lot more corner speed than the person I was overtaking, but generally I prefer riding by myself and try to avoid other riders as they can be unpredictable.

[Yorick]

Gooseneck and Mansfield are brave moves, on a 400 I was mostly overtaking going into Park or Coppice, I wasn't braking much, sometimes coming out of Charlies and occasionally between Coppice and Charlies when I'd carried a lot more corner speed than the person I was overtaking, but generally I prefer riding by myself and try to avoid other riders as they can be unpredictable.

I loved following folk through tricky stuff then zapping them on the exit.
Big fat tyre, Ohlins shock and good throttle control.
I passed loads out of Gooseneck, barely 10 yards after the apex.

[wull]

[Yorick]

I won a few races at Cadwell so maybe I know a little bit about it.

Now run along. I can hear your mummy calling you in for your tea.