Energy bills

[Hoonercat]

Those laser temp things are an indication, at best. Way too many variables to really trust 'em unless you've been through a proper calibration on what you're measuring.

As above, I used a digital kitchen thermometer

55°C is the number I've seen too. Lower is gonna be better, but obviously hotter radiators warm your house quicker. Balances need to be struck!

Well it turns our that our boiler is a little smart and has a whole range of data you can flick trough on the display, so can see the flow and return temps live.
I dropped the flow down to 70 degrees and am now getting a return of 54 degrees, which is apparently bob-on. That doesn't equate to the 20 degree drop you should have across rads but apparently TRV's and random size rads can affect that?

My woodburner is as thick shit, it doesn't show any of this. I add wood as needed, and when the room feels hot enough, I stop adding wood and close the vents. I know, it's barbaric....

[Bowman]

Those laser temp things are an indication, at best. Way too many variables to really trust 'em unless you've been through a proper calibration on what you're measuring.

As above, I used a digital kitchen thermometer

55°C is the number I've seen too. Lower is gonna be better, but obviously hotter radiators warm your house quicker. Balances need to be struck!

Well it turns our that our boiler is a little smart and has a whole range of data you can flick trough on the display, so can see the flow and return temps live.
I dropped the flow down to 70 degrees and am now getting a return of 54 degrees, which is apparently bob-on. That doesn't equate to the 20 degree drop you should have across rads but apparently TRV's and random size rads can affect that?

That's pretty much spot on. We used to work on an 11 degree difference between flow and return temps but that was before the condensing boilers arrived.
The advice now is to oversize radiators by a third so the flow temp can be set a lot lower.
Turning down the boiler stat can help with recovering the latent heat from condensing but you'll end up at a point where the system just won't be doing its job and the system will be on for longer than necessary.
Putting the system on at strategic times, half an hour before getting out of bed and then shutting off when your up, similar in the evening could save as well.

[v8-powered]

Those laser temp things are an indication, at best. Way too many variables to really trust 'em unless you've been through a proper calibration on what you're measuring.

As above, I used a digital kitchen thermometer

55°C is the number I've seen too. Lower is gonna be better, but obviously hotter radiators warm your house quicker. Balances need to be struck!

Well it turns our that our boiler is a little smart and has a whole range of data you can flick trough on the display, so can see the flow and return temps live.
I dropped the flow down to 70 degrees and am now getting a return of 54 degrees, which is apparently bob-on. That doesn't equate to the 20 degree drop you should have across rads but apparently TRV's and random size rads can affect that?

That's pretty much spot on. We used to work on an 11 degree difference between flow and return temps but that was before the condensing boilers arrived.
The advice now is to oversize radiators by a third so the flow temp can be set a lot lower.
Turning down the boiler stat can help with recovering the latent heat from condensing but you'll end up at a point where the system just won't be doing its job and the system will be on for longer than necessary.
Putting the system on at strategic times, half an hour before getting out of bed and then shutting off when your up, similar in the evening could save as well.

Good to know, cheers. An awful lot of contradicting views on the interweb so good to have feedback from someone in the know.
We also have Nest - that's doing its stuff altering our schedule and temps too. Fingers crossed saves a few quid over the winter.

[Phoenix]

A tip.

I bought 2 x 4 moisture traps at a cost of £1.00 from the Pound Shop. They are meant to be disposable. I have recycled mine. I bought 2 kilos of the chemical from EBay which should last me quite a while. I am quite amazed at how much condensation they capture. I’ve got them spread here, there and everywhere such as in the wardrobe, on my bookshelf and with my gear that has lenses.

Even with the heat on they still capture moisture. Much cheaper than my dehumidifier.


Be Good. Take Care.

[Count Steer]

A tip.

I bought 2 x 4 moisture traps at a cost of £1.00 from the Pound Shop. They are meant to be disposable. I have recycled mine. I bought 2 kilos of the chemical from EBay which should last me quite a while. I am quite amazed at how much condensation they capture. I’ve got them spread here, there and everywhere such as in the wardrobe, on my bookshelf and with my gear that has lenses.

I use them in cupboards in the kitchen that are on cold walls - ditto a couple of wardrobes. I get the crystals (anhydrous calcium chloride?) from Lakeland. They will, of course, absorb any moisture that they come into contact with so I'm not sure they'll do much good in open spaces like on a bookshelf but in cold corner cupboards in a humid environment like a kitchen

[Pirahna]

Silica gel cat litter is cheap and absorbs moisture.

[Treadeager]

Cheer up chaps , it's only ten years away !

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/ ... on-energy/

US scientists make huge breakthrough in fusion energy
There are hopes fusion energy could provide a cleaner alternative to fossil fuels in the future

By
David Millward
12 December 2022 • 6:59am
Fusion reaction produces net energy gain, says US government lab in scientific milestone
Fusion reaction produces net energy gain, says US government lab in scientific milestone CREDIT: Corbis Historical
A major breakthrough in the search for clean energy has been made by US government scientists at a laboratory in California, it has been reported.

A fusion reaction, carried out at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory produced more energy than was absorbed by the fuel to create it.

It represents a major milestone in the drive to wean the US and other major economies from carbon-producing fossil fuels which scientists regard as the main driver of climate change.

The energy crisis triggered by the war in Ukraine has intensified the need for alternative energy.

Earlier this year the Biden administration passed the Inflation Reduction Act, which included nearly $370bn in new subsidies for low-carbon energy.

On taking office, Mr Biden pledged that his administration would be a global leader in the race to develop green technology.

Pictured is the National Ignition Facility at Lawrence Livermore Laboratory
Pictured is the National Ignition Facility at Lawrence Livermore Laboratory CREDIT: Corbis Historical
The US energy secretary, Jennifer Granholm and under-secretary for nuclear security Jill Hruby are due to announce the breakthrough on Tuesday.

In August last year, the Livermore laboratory announced the results of a reaction which released 1.3 megajoules of energy, about five times the 250 kilojoules that were absorbed by the capsule.

The reaction is produced by bombarding a minute blob of plasma with light from 192 lasers at the laboratory’s $3.5 billion National Ignition Facility, which was initially created to test nuclear weapons by simulating explosions.

Ms Hruby hailed the results at the time.

“These extraordinary results from NIF (National Ignition Facility) advance the science that NNSA (National Nuclear Safety Administration) depends on to modernise our nuclear weapons and production," she said.

“It also offers potential new avenues of research into alternative energy sources that could aid economic development and help fight climate change."

However, that fell short of the 1.9-megajoule target set by the NIF.

That threshold was breached in recent weeks by scientists at Livermore, the Financial Times reported.

It is understood the latest laser reaction produced 2.5 megajoules of energy. The results of the fusion experiment are still being analysed.

Such was the power produced in the fusion experiment that some of the diagnostic equipment was damaged.

The laboratory has remained cautious, beyond describing the experiment as successful.

“Initial diagnostic data suggests another successful experiment at the National Ignition Facility,” it said.

“However, the exact yield is still being determined and we can’t confirm that it is over the threshold at this time.

“That analysis is in process, so publishing the information . . . before that process is complete would be inaccurate.”

Fusion reactions produce neither carbon nor long-lived, radioactive waste - effectively reaching the holy grail in energy production.

It also enables vast amounts of energy to be produced from very little hydrogen fuel.

The technique of inertial confinement fusion dates back to the 1970s and simply put aims to harness the power found in nuclear weapons to produce energy.

Fusion energy has bipartisan support in Washington.

Earlier this year Democratic congressman Don Beyer, who started the Fusion Energy Caucus, stressed the technology was different from that used to produce power at Fukushima and Chernobyl.

“Fusion is the Holy Grail of climate change and decarbonised future,” he told a White House summit.

“Perhaps even more profoundly, fusion has the potential to lift more citizens of the world out of poverty than any idea since fire.”

[Mr. Dazzle]

The NIF played the part of the warp core in the USS Enterprise, so it's also got that going for it

[Yorick]

Just had our bill, we used 230m3 of gas this last month and 460kWh of electric.
I dunno if that's a lot or not.

Blimey. Not gonna be cheap.

[Mr. Dazzle]

We used 224kWh of electricity and 34m³ of gas if that helps. We don't live in a house which we need to use the word "century" to describe in any way though

[JamJar]

Just had our bill, we used 230m3 of gas this last month and 460kWh of electric.
I dunno if that's a lot or not.

So Last month I used about 70m3 of gas and 280 Kwh of electric and mi combined bill was about £190 if that helps.

[Horse]

The combined bill (for the month up to the middle of last week) was £450.
It does seem a bit more than I'd reckoned

Is this with your son running it like a sauna?

[v8-powered]

Probably about the money for a reasonable sized house - we are currently burning about £425 a month on gas and electricity.

[Count Steer]

If you want to micro manage your energy use you can find out how much it costs to charge your phone and toothbrush here. https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/ ... dApp_Other

There's some more interesting stuff like ovens and microwaves too.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Cold weather had certainly come and hit us...we're spending £8-9 a day now whereas a month ago it was £3-4.

[Ant]

If you want to micro manage your energy use you can find out how much it costs to charge your phone and toothbrush here. https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/ ... dApp_Other

There's some more interesting stuff like ovens and microwaves too.

It looks as though they've assumed the oven elements have a 100% duty cycle, which they don't. And the microwave, cooking power or magnetron?

[Count Steer]

If you want to micro manage your energy use you can find out how much it costs to charge your phone and toothbrush here. https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/ ... dApp_Other

There's some more interesting stuff like ovens and microwaves too.

It looks as though they've assumed the oven elements have a 100% duty cycle, which they don't. And the microwave, cooking power or magnetron?

It says he used a power meter so implies he monitored actual consumption but it's not exactly lab testing.

Microwave? 10 year old Panasonic running at full power - 850W. More than that I do not know...although he was surprised at the consumption when it was off and just running the clock. (2W, £6pa)

[Mr. Dazzle]

If they'd assumed 100% duty for the 3kW oven they're talking about, in one hour it would use....drum roll....3kWh. Which is just over a quid at today's prices. They've quoted a figure of 55p?

Has anyone microwaved anything for an hour though? Not since that one time they tried doing a roast chicken in 1986 anyway.

[Count Steer]

If they'd assumed 100% duty for the 3kW oven they're talking about, in one hour it would use....drum roll....3kWh. Which is just over a quid at today's prices. They've quoted a figure of 55p?

Has anyone microwaved anything for an hour though? Not since that one time they tried doing a roast chicken in 1986 anyway.

He does make the point that the advantage of the microwave is it does things faster. Also, it's cheaper to heat a tin of soup on the gas hob than in the microwave.

Which? Did an article on 'parasitic' appliances and the cost of leaving stuff on standby but it's behind their paywall.

TBH my bills went ^ when I did stuff like running greenhouse (fan) heaters to keep the cabin at 10° and to reduce condensation in the conservatory. All the hours add up. I did wonder about switching the pond pump off for winter - it's not a small one and it does run 24/7/365. That really does rack up the ££ even at a few p/hr. (It has stopped the pond from freezing over completely though).

[Mussels]

The end of the article suggests getting a plug in energy monitor so I suspect that was used for most of the tests, I put my unit charge into mine and it gives me the cost which is likely what he did.
He was surprised the hairdryer used a lot of energy.