That's why I wouldn't feel bad about having the aforementioned RC211V.
Any sort of top flight prototype race vehicle is not really for regular use. They're built on the assumption you'll have a team of people in matching shirts working on them and they only ever get into their proper working range for a couple of hours a week In fact it's not even that long is it, they're only fully in the zone for a couple of minutes at a time.
I see them as something different to a road vehicle.
Mr. Dazzle wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 9:09 am
That's why I wouldn't feel bad about having the aforementioned RC211V.
Any sort of top flight prototype race vehicle is not really for regular use. They're built on the assumption you'll have a team of people in matching shirts working on them and they only ever get into their proper working range for a couple of hours a week In fact it's not even that long is it, they're only fully in the zone for a couple of minutes at a time.
I see them as something different to a road vehicle.
I'd still want to get it running and take it to eg Goodwood (probably get someone else to ride it ).
Doubt is not a pleasant condition.
But certainty is an absurd one.
Voltaire
I had an ex Yamaha dealer YZ125F (Bavins for anyone interested), it was fast but needed a top end rebuild every 30 minutes of running time, it's how proper racing bikes are, they last one race and then need work.
F1 cars only have 3 engines for an entire season now, although to be fair only one a couple of drivers actually stayed within that limit in 2022 AFAIK.
Mr. Dazzle wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 2:32 pm
F1 cars only have 3 engines for an entire season now, although to be fair only one a couple of drivers actually stayed within that limit in 2022 AFAIK.
When they do an engine swap, what's usually the reason? ie what's failed/worn out? Must be pretty serious if they can't strip and rebuild it...or isn't that allowed?
Doubt is not a pleasant condition.
But certainty is an absurd one.
Voltaire
Potter wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 2:21 pm
I had a factory supported privateer team RM125 that I rode and rode and rode and it never broke down, I had spare top end stuff and I kept meaning to do it but I never got around to it, I easily put way more than 10 hours on it, then I sold it, I gave the spares to the new guy but I wouldn't have been surprised if he did another 10hrs+ on it.
Well put together engines seem to last.
My YZ used to eat rings because of the huge ports, I'd have thought your RM would've been the same, maybe you weren't riding it hard enough
I suspect it has more to do with my YZ being air cooled and not having any power valves.
Potter wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 2:21 pm
I had a factory supported privateer team RM125 that I rode and rode and rode and it never broke down, I had spare top end stuff and I kept meaning to do it but I never got around to it, I easily put way more than 10 hours on it, then I sold it, I gave the spares to the new guy but I wouldn't have been surprised if he did another 10hrs+ on it.
Well put together engines seem to last.
I bought a 3 month old LC350 with only 1 race meeting half way through my first season. Ran great.
In winter my mate took it apart and built it to perfection. Took him hours.
It did 40 race meetings in 2nd season no problems
He went on to spanner for BSB teams and TT riders. Top bloke. He's coming over soon so might let him at the GasGas
Mr. Dazzle wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 2:32 pm
F1 cars only have 3 engines for an entire season now, although to be fair only one a couple of drivers actually stayed within that limit in 2022 AFAIK.
When they do an engine swap, what's usually the reason? ie what's failed/worn out? Must be pretty serious if they can't strip and rebuild it...or isn't that allowed?
I don't know the specifics of what usually fails, they have some fairly sophisticated techniques for telling what's going on inside the engine though. Mass spectroscopy on the oil to look for metallic contamination, analysis of vibration etc. I also know there are a number of items with known life - the conrods always used to be the big one, they stretch over life and will eventually start hitting the valves. Plus good old fashioned seeing if stuff's loose
They're not generally allowed to strip them no, but there are some allowances. I remember a few years ago Virgin Racing got special permission to take their exhaust off in Parc Ferme 'cause someone dropped a spanner in the manifold.
Le_Fromage_Grande wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 2:54 pm
My YZ used to eat rings because of the huge ports, I'd have thought your RM would've been the same, maybe you weren't riding it hard enough
I suspect it has more to do with my YZ being air cooled and not having any power valves.
Maybe, I dunno, I've had air cooled bikes that ran forever, but yeah I doubt my bike was as stressed with me riding it as it would be with a GP rider on.
I think if you take a stock pair of rings and throw them into an unknown bore then there is more potential for failure because of tolerance issues, but I reckon a very well built engine with rings gapped properly and perfect tolerances wouldn't fail structurally for a long time.
For the amount of money it takes to put a rider on the start line of a GP (even motocross) then I reckon they're happy to take all the time needed to get the engine as perfect as they can.
Probably, I was just slinging in a new ring (it was a single ring piston) straight out of the box, the rings cost about £2 each from memory (it was over 30 years ago)
Mr. Dazzle wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 3:07 pm
They're not generally allowed to strip them no, but there are some allowances. I remember a few years ago Virgin Racing got special permission to take their exhaust off in Parc Ferme 'cause someone dropped a spanner in the manifold.
Oops. At least they knew they'd done it. My neighbour took her MX5 in for a service which included new plugs. Finished the job, fired it up - clatter bang crunch. Ended with them shipping and fitting a brand new engine.
A swivel pin in the business end of the mechanic's (Snap-on) plug spanner had fallen out and, of course, gone unnoticed down the plug 'ole. I think the garage tried to claim from Snap-on but, I assume, their insurance would cover the cost.
Doubt is not a pleasant condition.
But certainty is an absurd one.
Voltaire
Le_Fromage_Grande wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 2:54 pm
My YZ used to eat rings because of the huge ports, I'd have thought your RM would've been the same, maybe you weren't riding it hard enough
I suspect it has more to do with my YZ being air cooled and not having any power valves.
Maybe, I dunno, I've had air cooled bikes that ran forever, but yeah I doubt my bike was as stressed with me riding it as it would be with a GP rider on.
I think if you take a stock pair of rings and throw them into an unknown bore then there is more potential for failure because of tolerance issues, but I reckon a very well built engine with rings gapped properly and perfect tolerances wouldn't fail structurally for a long time.
For the amount of money it takes to put a rider on the start line of a GP (even motocross) then I reckon they're happy to take all the time needed to get the engine as perfect as they can.
Probably, I was just slinging in a new ring (it was a single ring piston) straight out of the box, the rings cost about £2 each from memory (it was over 30 years ago)
Where there was a wide port, some tuners put a tiny lip at top so ring slid over the edge rather than caught. ITMS ?
I often saunter down into the garage to gaze upon my collection...the 1966 ex I.O.W. plod Le 200 (mkiii Lucas, of course) and the 1960 early Viceroy (naked as the day before it was born....
Yorick wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 3:29 pm
Where there was a wide port, some tuners put a tiny lip at top so ring slid over the edge rather than caught. ITMS ?
There might have been but I doubt it, it's over 35 years ago, I remember there were a lot more ports than metal in the barrell, the rings were cheap, the head gasket was a copper ring you could use multiple times and the base gasket never split.
I sold it to someone who decided it needed taking to a specialist, as far as I know it never ran again after he tried to "improve" it.
Just googled for some pictures, it was actually a YZ125G not an F
In fact it's not even that long is it, they're only fully in the zone for a couple of minutes at a time.
).
