Will Russia invade the Ukraine?

[Mussels]

Since June, the U.S. has supplied Kyiv with 20 of the High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems (HIMARS), but the weapons are uniquely modified so they can’t fire long-range missiles, The Wall Street Journal reported, citing U.S. officials.

Seems a pity really. Russia can (and has) escalated by taking out civilian infrastructure all over Ukraine, not just the war zone.

Ukraine gets it's hands tied so it can't hit back. Not really very fair.

While its short-range weapons are being delivered it is working on its long-range ones, they now apparently have a drone that can reach 1,000km inland. Compliments the sea drones nicely.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Since June, the U.S. has supplied Kyiv with 20 of the High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems (HIMARS), but the weapons are uniquely modified so they can’t fire long-range missiles, The Wall Street Journal reported, citing U.S. officials.

Seems a pity really. Russia can (and has) escalated by taking out civilian infrastructure all over Ukraine, not just the war zone.

Ukraine gets it's hands tied so it can't hit back. Not really very fair.

True - but then Russia isn't being given/loabed/sold some of the shiniest and most accurate weapons a trillion dollar arms trade has either.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

Since June, the U.S. has supplied Kyiv with 20 of the High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems (HIMARS), but the weapons are uniquely modified so they can’t fire long-range missiles, The Wall Street Journal reported, citing U.S. officials.

Seems a pity really. Russia can (and has) escalated by taking out civilian infrastructure all over Ukraine, not just the war zone.

Ukraine gets it's hands tied so it can't hit back. Not really very fair.

Ukraine can do whatever it wants, but that would mean they have to pay for their weapons.

[Hoonercat]

Since June, the U.S. has supplied Kyiv with 20 of the High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems (HIMARS), but the weapons are uniquely modified so they can’t fire long-range missiles, The Wall Street Journal reported, citing U.S. officials.

Seems a pity really. Russia can (and has) escalated by taking out civilian infrastructure all over Ukraine, not just the war zone.

Ukraine gets it's hands tied so it can't hit back. Not really very fair.

Though it shows a lack of trust on the part of the US, American missiles landing on Russian soil would play into Putin's hands, moreso if civilian infrastructure is hit.
Long range Ukrainian drones, however...

KYIV/NOVOSOFIIVKA, Ukraine, Dec 6 (Reuters) - A third Russian airfield was ablaze on Tuesday from a drone strike, a day after Ukraine demonstrated an apparent new ability to penetrate hundreds of kilometers deep into Russian air space with attacks on two Russian air bases.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/uk ... 022-12-05/

[irie]

Since June, the U.S. has supplied Kyiv with 20 of the High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems (HIMARS), but the weapons are uniquely modified so they can’t fire long-range missiles, The Wall Street Journal reported, citing U.S. officials.

Seems a pity really. Russia can (and has) escalated by taking out civilian infrastructure all over Ukraine, not just the war zone.

Ukraine gets it's hands tied so it can't hit back. Not really very fair.

Winter won't be fair either. I expect to see very large numbers of Russian soldiers, especially ill equipped and inexperienced conscripts, freezing to death this winter. If they don't first desert, that is.

In the end the TU160's and TU95's will be downed.

[Mussels]

It may be time for a second poll, will Belarus invade Ukraine tomorrow while people are distracted and Lukashenko is on some strange trip to Russia.

[MingtheMerciless]

The TU-160’s are “Crown Jewels” I would think they are being moved well out of range. Plenty of Bears and Tu-22Ms to expend.

[ZRX61]

It may be time for a second poll, will Belarus invade Ukraine tomorrow while people are distracted and Lukashenko is on some strange trip to Russia.

Or "Will Biden completely fuck it up & get the US/NATO involved in a shooting war with Russia?"

[Mussels]

At the moment I don't think Russia is stupid enough for that, but if Putin is on his death bed as some people think then that might change.

[irie]

Putin has fucked up. Big time. The question is how will he try to get out of it. If he doesn't first die/have an accident/retire through illl health/WHY.

US industrial power vs Russian industrial power. And China won't help, it's too dependant on manufacturing for the US market and therefore afraid of potential US sanctions.

[weeksy]

Putin has fucked up. Big time. The question is how will he try to get out of it. If he doesn't first die/have an accident/retire through illl health/WHY.

US industrial power vs Russian industrial power. And China won't help, it's too dependant on manufacturing for the US market and therefore afraid of potential US sanctions.

Nah, the question is, why in the heck are you even thinking about it on Xmas Eve?

[ZRX61]

At the moment I don't think Russia is stupid enough for that, but if Putin is on his death bed as some people think then that might change.

It's not a question of is Russia that stupid, the fact is Biden IS that stupid... Then Western tech takes out conventional Russia, at which point Putin has a FTS moment & starts throwing nukes around.

Are ya willing to bet against that possibility?

[wheelnut]

At the moment I don't think Russia is stupid enough for that, but if Putin is on his death bed as some people think then that might change.

It's not a question of is Russia that stupid, the fact is Biden IS that stupid... Then Western tech takes out conventional Russia, at which point Putin has a FTS moment & starts throwing nukes around.

Are ya willing to bet against that possibility?

Russia/US have been fighting proxy wars for god knows how long. From Soviet support of North Vietnam to US support of the Mujahideen. It’s nothing new.

Biden will walk right up to the line but he won’t cross it. He already turned down Zelensky’s request for longer range weapons, tanks and aircraft.

[Horse]

Russia/US have been fighting proxy wars for god knows how long. From Soviet support of North Vietnam to US support of the Mujahideen. It’s nothing new.

A cynic might suggest that such things often aid development of technology and techniques. Much less so in Vietnam, which cost many US lives, but where the kit is being supplied, with 'advisers'.

[wheelnut]

Russia/US have been fighting proxy wars for god knows how long. From Soviet support of North Vietnam to US support of the Mujahideen. It’s nothing new.

A cynic might suggest that such things often aid development of technology and techniques. Much less so in Vietnam, which cost many US lives, but where the kit is being supplied, with 'advisers'.

Interesting piece in The Times today about the current use of AI in Ukraine.

[irie]

Putin has fucked up. Big time. The question is how will he try to get out of it. If he doesn't first die/have an accident/retire through illl health/WHY.

US industrial power vs Russian industrial power. And China won't help, it's too dependant on manufacturing for the US market and therefore afraid of potential US sanctions.

Nah, the question is, why in the heck are you even thinking about it on Xmas Eve?

Thinking about it because I feel for Ukrainians who are suffering the most horrendous deprivations at Putin's hands.

[Screwdriver]

Well, when someone is so one sided in their opinion of a subject, you're unlikely to change their mind, so why bother?

I'm up for it. Honest. Just show me a sick Pangolin and we'll take it from there. As for that report above from W.H.O. it is a great example for what I am suggesting regarding most (if not all) of these global health institutions. There was no real need to translate it from Chinese, everybody already knew what it would say. Most of that propaganda has already been shown to be wrong, the rest is opinion dressed up as science.

"One sided opinion" is a great tautology, I must remember that. It's just little me here and yes, I have formed an opinion. I cannot have two conflicting opinions even though I did try to investigate the opposite view (see above) which made no sense to me at all. I remember quite recently arguing vociferously against someone who declared it was definitely a man made virus, escaped from a lab etc. and my argument really centred around the situation everybody here seems to take that there is (or at least was) no hard evidence one way or the other. The assertion contained serious factual errors.

Having said that, all the circumstantial evidence points towards a man made virus escaping from a lab and all the people who definitely would know the truth are being coy if not downright disingenuous. The "lab theory" might be correct, it might not but the most telling thing for me is that "one side" is trying to shut down all dissenting information, the other is wondering why there is so much obfuscation and secrecy. Every once in a while the anti-lab, nothing to see here "authoritative sources" slip up and tell lies to support their position.

The truth is very hard to find, lies are much easier to spot. This is why I suspect, Dr. Fauci for example has been disappeared.

Heyho. Here's a nice conspiracy theory update for you. Sorry wrong thread but it's on topic regarding lit. governments and governmetal agencies conspiring.



Should probably be in a COVID thread but I was drawn into the debate here so defend my position from here.

The truth will out.

[mangocrazy]

Back on topic...

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[Screwdriver]

Well Trump did try to find out WTF was going on with corruption in Ukraine. Luckily he was impeached for asking such awkward questions or we'd all end up as conspiracy theorists.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

All the time Trump was POTUS Russia didn't invade any of Ukraine.