DAS

[Tigs]

Day 1 -

So was practicing Mod 1 - stuff on the big bike. I could do the slow maneuver -was ok on slalom and figure 8.. no matter I how I try (and the more I try) the less I use the REVS, or look in the right direction - I just can't do that U turn.. I'm certainly in my head about that - sigh


On to faster stuff- and I was ok - could do the avoid - the emergency stop - the swerve - BUT i was either at the right speed or careful on the maneuver but not both.. so still work to do on that too

I'm sat here trying to visualise using the break - grip - then squeeze - and trying to persuade myself to turn enough

Was ok on road riding - although did miss the one way part of the road I was on and position myself on the left (doh!) ..

Anyone got any U turn tips - that will help me -

[The Spin Doctor]

Try to complete more than half the turn in half the space - you can then finish easily - it's trying to make it a neat 50/50 turn that makes it awkward for many.

Avoid looking at the outside line or you'll head straight to it. Find a visual marker halfway across whilst you're stopped. Make a mental note of where it is and one rolling look at it, then aim to turn around the BACK of that point - that helps prevent you looking at the limits of the space you've got.

Set the revs and clutch, try not to move them once the bike is pulling - use the rear brake to control your speed.

Don't turn too slowly because some speed gives the bike balance, so to make tighter turn you need to make the bike lean more. The way to do that is is to use the counterweighting technique where you lean the 'wrong' way - you sit bolt upright and push the bike down below you - it'll turn tighter.

[wheelnut]

Everything that Spin says - it is all about forcing your view to where you want the bike to go. Do not look at the kerb

[Horse]

Try to complete more than half the turn in half the space - you can then finish easily - it's trying to make it a neat 50/50 turn that makes it awkward for many.


Don't turn too slowly because some speed gives the bike balance

That

Segment from hyperbolic spiral image, curved bit, obv!). Tight first, easing as you progress, blending into upright and straight (looking waaaaay into the distance - far outside of the test area).

20221203_164340.jpg (10.04 KiB) Viewed 792 times

On road it means you turn tighter and ride 'up' the camber (to the 'crown' of the road, the centreline), then wider as the camber falls away and the bike will feel like it wants to run wide. By having turned initially tight, you have room, you've removed some mental ("argh - the kerb!") pressure.

And that.

Even at a slight lean (you can't really U turn without it), gravity needs to be 'balanced' by power. Power is the string holding you up. As much as your brain will tell you to close the throttle, you need some drive.

[Tigs]

Day 2 -

Today I was fine with most of the elements - until I thought too much about it - The U turn is still horrid - but I have improved on yesterday - not sure how it will go tomorrow - I will have to cross my fingers and hope for the best.

Going to try to take my mind off tonight and just watch England.

[The Spin Doctor]

Good luck! Think positive. Think about how you've done it right before, NOT the alternative!

[Noggin]

100%don't over think it. It really does sort itself out as you relax more. You are learning and taking note of what you 'should' do, go with that

[Horse]

Think positive.
NOT the alternative!

[Tigs]

Day 3-

Road ride was OK a few learning points, but - on the whole good - even in heavy traffic - with people acting like 'nutters' - (I guy going the wrong way down a 1 way road) .. another cutting into the 3 of us riding (so between me and the second learner.. getting beeped at by our instructor - then deciding to stop - and let us 'rejoin each other' - but stopping in the middle of the road with his hazards on!

Mod 1 - was OK - but I fluffed the U turn and put my foot down - passed everything else - had 1 go at the 'swerve hazard' and was 1km under - so minor for that (didn't get a second chance as I'd already failed I guess) ..

SO back to practicing u-turns

[Noggin]

You'll do it. I can't imagine doing the new tests (swerve and the other stuff I didn't have to do) especially on cold or wet tarmac. Keep calm and relaxed - so very easy to say, but honestly, it helps so much. I'm pretty sure I only passed because I thought I'd failed and so just rode with a 'fuck it' mentality. I was so much more relaxed after I thought I'd failed that that got me through!

Good luck

[Zimbo]

Dragging the rear brake is the key to u-turns, and all low speed manoeuvres, for me at least! More rear break makes the bike "stand up", less allows it to drop into the turn more. Good luck with the test ...

[Noggin]

Dragging the rear brake is the key to u-turns, and all low speed manoeuvres, for me at least! More rear break makes the bike "stand up", less allows it to drop into the turn more. Good luck with the test ...

I never learnt that!! The only time I tried to put it into practice was on track and that didn't work for me!! I have tried to do that this summer but the back brake on the Monster isn't really there! But, on the CBF I borrowed, it was definitely useful More for spirited cornering than slow manouvers!! LOL

[Bigyin]

I never learnt that!! The only time I tried to put it into practice was on track and that didn't work for me!! I have tried to do that this summer but the back brake on the Monster isn't really there! But, on the CBF I borrowed, it was definitely useful More for spirited cornering than slow manouvers!! LOL

It should be taught at CBT level and emphasised at DAS for slow speed manoeuvres as use of the front brake will compress and unload the suspension which upsets the balance of the bike

If a bike is starting to pick up speed from walking place and you want to keep it down bringing the clutch in to reduce drive makes it free wheel and lose control. Drag the rear brake slightly and you can maintain the low speed while keeping the correct revs and clutch slip.

[Noggin]

I never learnt that!! The only time I tried to put it into practice was on track and that didn't work for me!! I have tried to do that this summer but the back brake on the Monster isn't really there! But, on the CBF I borrowed, it was definitely useful More for spirited cornering than slow manouvers!! LOL

It should be taught at CBT level and emphasised at DAS for slow speed manoeuvres

If a bike is starting to pick up speed from walking place and you want to keep it down bringing the clutch in to reduce drive makes it free wheel and lose control. Drag the rear brake slightly and you can maintain the low speed while keeping the correct revs and clutch slip.

Totally agree!! It was something I wasn't taught and didn't 'need' for the first 7ish years of riding as I was on a linked brake bike. I did delink them eventually but I am aware that I don't use the back brake as much as I could/should If I can sort the Monster rear brake for next summer, I will definitely be trying to use it more (in the right places!). Would be very useful in the wet on the mountain roads

[Bigyin]

Totally agree!! It was something I wasn't taught and didn't 'need' for the first 7ish years of riding as I was on a linked brake bike. I did delink them eventually but I am aware that I don't use the back brake as much as I could/should If I can sort the Monster rear brake for next summer, I will definitely be trying to use it more (in the right places!). Would be very useful in the wet on the mountain roads

Without wanting to digress from Tigs subject too much electronics are great until you get on a bike that doesnt have them ...... New riders are being taught emergency stops on bikes like the Yamaha MT-07 which has ABS fitted as standard. Roll off the throttle, grab the front brake and step on the rear as the ABS will sort it all out and bring you to a safe prompt stop

We had a guy recently who had passed his Mod1 and Mod2 test on an MT-07 then bought a 1200 Bandit who came to see us as he had scared the shit out of himself when he had braked heavily at speed, locked up and by luck got away with it. He had to relearn his emergency braking without ABS

If you are taught how to do it safely and properly without electronic assistance then the electronics become what they are intended for which is a rider aid for safety IMHO

Back to Tigs and his U turns and training

A hint for the Mod 1 test if you are struggling to get the speed correct remember that your speed is measured at 3 different manoeuvres but its only relevant as part of the test for 2

You pass through the speed trap for controlled braking, emergency stop and the avoidance. It only needs to be at a required level for Emergency Stop and Avoidance. When you complete your controlled braking it is the only time you can ask the examiner what your speed reading was. From that you can work out if you need to give it a little more/less/spot on for the next 2 manoeuvres. Might help

[Tigs]

So what is the old school way of stopping? I was taught - to 'feel the lemon - squeeze the lemon on the front break - whilst - slowly adding in back brake - and only touch the clutch - when you don't want to stall - I stopped a treat with no help from the machine


I'm pretty confident about speed for the emergency stop - but less so with the serve - scared if i go too fast i'll swipe a cone

But the U turn - too many things for me to remember - head up - revs up - clutch - back brake - look where you are going - life save urgh!!

Still proud of my progress I'm more aware and safer

[The Spin Doctor]

So what is the old school way of stopping? I was taught - to 'feel the lemon - squeeze the lemon on the front break - whilst - slowly adding in back brake - and only touch the clutch - when you don't want to stall - I stopped a treat with no help from the machine

Don't worry - that's the standard technique - settle then squeeze harder.

Just keep doing that, and if the front brake locks, your ABS will take care of it. Only if you ever ride a non-ABS bike do you need to know how to cope (essentially, release the pressure then try again more gently).

But the U turn - too many things for me to remember - head up - revs up - clutch - back brake - look where you are going - life save urgh!!

THAT'S why I suggested the 'visualision' technique. You do all the remembering in the comfort of your armchair at home, and NOT in the middle of the test on the bike. Run through the U-turn mentally, putting in everything you need to do, until you can run it like a real-time video in your head...

...and then you won't need to 'remember' on test, you'll just perform.

I'm pretty confident about speed for the emergency stop - but less so with the serve - scared if i go too fast i'll swipe a cone

Still proud of my progress I'm more aware and safer

Keep at it!

[Bigyin]

So what is the old school way of stopping? I was taught - to 'feel the lemon - squeeze the lemon on the front break - whilst - slowly adding in back brake - and only touch the clutch - when you don't want to stall - I stopped a treat with no help from the machine


I'm pretty confident about speed for the emergency stop - but less so with the serve - scared if i go too fast i'll swipe a cone

Keep braking that way. The school you are at is teaching you the correct method so the ABS isnt kicking in

I am aware of other places taking the "rely on the ABS" option as a lazy way of teaching

[iansoady]

As someone who has never had a bike with ABS (and like Noggin spent years - decades rather - not knowing how to ride slowly) I would have thought that having the ABS kick in would be an automatic failure as it shows lack of control. But what do I know?

[The Spin Doctor]

As someone who has never had a bike with ABS (and like Noggin spent years - decades rather - not knowing how to ride slowly) I would have thought that having the ABS kick in would be an automatic failure as it shows lack of control. But what do I know?

Back in the early days of ABS, there were various magazine tests where riders outbraked the ABS - I remember one where John Robinson beat BMW's system quite easily even on a wet surface, and there was another where Jamie Whitham toasted ABS too. But they weren't average riders.

That was then, this is now, and ABS is MUCH more sophisticated. Even the bum-basic system on my 12 year old XJ6 is very unobtrusive when it kicks in and the margins between what an average rider can achieve NOT triggering the ABS and the distance the ABS will stop the bike in is now reversed. There was a study by an Italian research group on the topic a couple of years back - they found all bar the most skilled rider in the group stopped quickest triggering the ABS.

The fact is, those of us who learned not to lock the front wheel when braking hard were mostly using only 60 or 70% of what the brakes can do. Braking to the limit of adhesion, yet not actually crossing it, is a skill beyond most of us. Riders begin to learn that on a track but often mistakenly attribute it to 'extra grip' - the reality is that the anti-skid surface approaching a pedestrian crossing affords race-track like grip wet or dry... but that's not a great place to practice your hard braking.

The big plus of a track (at least to a road rider) is consistency of the surface. A typical road surface varies from metre to metre... and that's why experienced road riders are pretty conservative even when braking hard.