mangocrazy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 2:41 pm
One of the reasons for the steroidal growth of cars is because it's much easier to make a larger car NCAP compliant than a smaller one. Plus, of course people are getting bigger/fatter as the years go by.
considering most of us started off driving cars in the likes of the original mini's have you seen how they crashed, you wouldn't put your own children in one. even small bumps, they just fold up.
so the trend for the steroidal increase to make them cash better is a good idea IMO. as for bikes getting huge suits me
mangocrazy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 2:41 pm
One of the reasons for the steroidal growth of cars is because it's much easier to make a larger car NCAP compliant than a smaller one. Plus, of course people are getting bigger/fatter as the years go by.
considering most of us started off driving cars in the likes of the original mini's have you seen how they crashed, you wouldn't put your own children in one. even small bumps, they just fold up.
so the trend for the steroidal increase to make them cash better is a good idea IMO. as for bikes getting huge suits me
I certainly wasn't complaining about the increased safety of modern cars - far from it. My father died as a result of a car crash (at the age of 82) while driving a Peugeot 205. Had he been in a larger, better protected car he would probably have survived. That certainly changed my view point on small cars.
But larger bikes have nothing to do with crash protection.
mangocrazy wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 10:50 pm
Yeah, I get that but when something like a featherweight (150kg) KTM Duke 690 has a bar width of 825 - 850mm you wonder what is going on. All it does is make the whole plot a bit twitchy and unstable when unwanted inputs are fed into the bars. It took me a while to get used to being a fair bit more gentle with my bar inputs compared to a sports bike.
I'd put that down to style. I've fitted narrower bars to a couple of machines. One person said it made the steering 'heavy', I felt it made it more predictable.
mangocrazy wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:13 pm
I certainly wasn't complaining about the increased safety of modern cars - far from it. My father died as a result of a car crash (at the age of 82) while driving a Peugeot 205. Had he been in a larger, better protected car he would probably have survived. That certainly changed my view point on small cars.
There is a HUGE drive in NZ to get parents NOT to buy their kids cheap, elderly hatchbacks for exactly that reason.
mangocrazy wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:13 pm
I certainly wasn't complaining about the increased safety of modern cars - far from it. My father died as a result of a car crash (at the age of 82) while driving a Peugeot 205. Had he been in a larger, better protected car he would probably have survived. That certainly changed my view point on small cars.
There is a HUGE drive in NZ to get parents NOT to buy their kids cheap, elderly hatchbacks for exactly that reason.
Yet small, elderly hatchbacks are the most insurable vehicles for young drivers.
Up to a point you can make the bike of your choice lighter fairly easily. Dumping the stock exhaust and cat,plus a few other not required parts took mine to the same weight as a new ZX10R. Around 20kgs can be shaved off a modern bike. Once you go past a certain point it gets much more expensive.
Potter wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 6:51 am
As soon as any bike goes over 150kg then I start to really count the kilograms, anything over 200kg is simply off the cards, I might as well use the Range Rover.
My golden years on bikes were racing a TZ250 at less than 110kg and racing motocross bikes at about 100kg.
My 250/350 road bikes were heavy in comparison and recently I've really been noticing the weight of my LC as I've been pushing it around, which must be 160kg wet, even with the lighter wheels.
Anything above that feels like a barge, which isn't so bad sometimes, but it does get to the point where I feel like I might as well just use the car if I'm going to be lugging 200kg+ about.
100kg and 40bhp is where my mind is at, but I weigh 77kg myself now, so perhaps 120kg and 55bhp would be better.
Yeah, 200kg is the absolute top limit as far as I'm concerned, which is why I'm seriously considering parting with the VFR in the next year or so. My Duke 690 has been a very significant bike for me, as it's caused me to re-evaluate a lot of things - how much power do I need, what amount of weight is too much and do I really need or want a sports bike as I get older and less mobile? It's no coincidence that I ride the two lightest bikes I own (the LC and the Duke) much more than the other heavier bikes.
Ironically the ideal bike for me now would be one I disposed of about 20 years ago - a YPVS 350-based 'special' with box section steel Hejira frame/swingarm, Astralite wheels, carbon fibre seat/subframe and a dripping wet weight of 130kg as measured on the Oulton Park weighbridge.
Potter wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 6:51 am
As soon as any bike goes over 150kg then I start to really count the kilograms, anything over 200kg is simply off the cards, I might as well use the Range Rover.
My golden years on bikes were racing a TZ250 at less than 110kg and racing motocross bikes at about 100kg.
My 250/350 road bikes were heavy in comparison and recently I've really been noticing the weight of my LC as I've been pushing it around, which must be 160kg wet, even with the lighter wheels.
Anything above that feels like a barge, which isn't so bad sometimes, but it does get to the point where I feel like I might as well just use the car if I'm going to be lugging 200kg+ about.
100kg and 40bhp is where my mind is at, but I weigh 77kg myself now, so perhaps 120kg and 55bhp would be better.
I'm sorry.....
You'd rather drive a 2,500kg 4-wheeler than deign to entertain riding a 2 wheeler that's 205kg?
That's either bait from Ant's box, or you've been living in amongst the super-entitled for too long.
Horse wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 11:51 am
This 'trend', does it include all of the massive tourers that were around in the 1980s (and long before, for HDs)?
eg:
One of my BMF Basic training instructors couriered on a 'Wing. IIRC it's actually quite a low bike to sit on.
Skub wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 10:59 am
Up to a point you can make the bike of your choice lighter fairly easily. Dumping the stock exhaust and cat,plus a few other not required parts took mine to the same weight as a new ZX10R. Around 20kgs can be shaved off a modern bike. Once you go past a certain point it gets much more expensive.
Stock exhaust on my ZRX1100 weighed 30lb (ZRX12 system is 31lb), the stainless Muzzy Meg that went on was a hair under 9lb. At the time it was lighter than a Ti offering from Akro purely because there's not much to the Muzzy Meg. There's damn near bugger all in the way of baffling & what little there was, was modified by me before it went on & made the hole at the loud end about 1/2in larger dia... and it already had the large dia baffle assembly to start with.
The Tsukigi NK-1/Formula Extreme ZRX1100 was 435lb wet, Stock was 490lb dry. 172hp shoving 435lb is quite a bit more impressive than 96hp shoving about 530lb of wet ZRX1100. Never rode it on the track, but I gave it a bit of grief on the road here in town.
Must admit I'm getting to the stage with my ST1050 where I fancy something lighter.
When I was a few years younger and fitter it was fine but now I'm getting on, the mass bothers me. Considering I only do a maximum of 10 - 12 miles per day with the occasional 50 miles round trip, anything will suffice now including scoots.
