What have you done today thread?

[wheelnut]

We went to an outdoors type of place yesterday to all get kitted out with winter clothing because we don't really have that much after most of a lifetime living somewhere hot, we do have a myriad of stuff like Barbour coats but they're fashion coats rather than really warm stuff for winter.

Anyway, we tend not to look so much at prices and after 5x everything, including Rab down jackets, decent boots, etc, we trotted over to the till to pay where I went "are you sure that's right?"

I do appreciate that people don't do that sort of shopping every day but fook me it's expensive here.

Cheaper brands are available……

[Horse]

I do appreciate that people don't do that sort of shopping every day but fook me it's expensive here.

Compared with where? [I'm deliberately avoiding the 'Dubai' cheap shot]

I know that for bike gear there was a company (Germany?) that did much cheaper prices than available in the UK.

But how do other countries compare?

[Potter]

Compared with where?

I think the only time we've shopped for stuff like that as a whole family was in the USA and it was a lot cheaper.

But what I should have said was "it's expensive here now" - because I've bought outdoors stuff before in the UK and it was never that expensive.
On a similar note my wife came back from the shop yesterday complaining about the price of milk, apparently the best part of three quid when it used to be a pound something.

[Count Steer]

I think many markets have split. The 'better' brands have got more expensive but there's a lot of stuff out there that it's hard to imagine how they can make it and ship it (from China usually) at the price. Also there seems to be more companies positioned as premium brands.

Even in a chain like Cotswold they're stocking Harkila (the £220 overtrousers) and Didrikson gear so old faithful stuff like Berghaus is now mid-market.

Some brands have maintained prices but reduced costs/quality eg Meindl and some brands develop over time then get rolled into the big outfits or simply bought out eg Brasher and Pod. Quality rarely rises when that happens.

The other thing, of course, is to never pay the 'normal' price. Everything is like sofas...just wait for the next sale because, if there isn't one now, there will be next week. (If it's Mountain Warehouse it's generally low end and constant discounts/sales).

I tend to find a brand and stick with it until/unless they go downhill. I still like Paramo and Patagonia kit.

[Count Steer]

One of the the things I needed was waterproof overtrousers. I didn't buy them but I did touch a pair priced at £220 TBH I could have bought a £12.99 pair of 'boil-in-the-bag' ones from Screwfix but I wanted something that you can get on/off with your boots on.

I get RAF surplus goretex ones off eBay - cost about £20 last time I got some and they are superb.

Cheers. I'll have a e-rummage.

[weeksy]

For that sort of stuff you really can't beat Decathlon, they're easy to find and lots of choice, if you want the £250 jackets you can get them, if you want the £50 jackets they're there too..

[Potter]

If I'm buying stuff for occasional use or to knock about in then I usually shop around and buy stuff in sales or from a mid-priced brand, but I've been caught out by buying brands that have been bought out and made to a lesser quality.

Otherwise I try to buy decent stuff, it's usually nicer fitting and lasts better, I've got some kit that I've owned for twenty years and has been all over the world with me, my old North Face Nuptse jacket just won't die, it's been to EBC, up Mt Blanc, Iceland, etc, it's been passed around the family to wear almost as a throwaway item now it's old, but stick it in the washer and dryer and it still looks new.

My view, for example, is that Mrs Potters pricey Rab coat will probably be the last of it's type she'll ever buy, it'll hopefully outlast both of us.

[Count Steer]

Otherwise I try to buy decent stuff, it's usually nicer fitting and lasts better, I've got some kit that I've owned for twenty years and has been all over the world with me, my old North Face Nuptse jacket just won't die, it's been to EBC, up Mt Blanc, Iceland, etc, it's been passed around the family to wear almost as a throwaway item now it's old, but stick it in the washer and dryer and it still looks new.

My view, for example, is that Mrs Potters pricey Rab coat will probably be the last of it's type she'll ever buy, it'll hopefully outlast both of us.

I've got a few 'old faithful' bits of kit that, if they do finally cease to function I'll be quite upset. Some were surprising ie relatively budget but turned out to be really well made and designed.
The problem with buying gear that lasts is, when you come to replace it, you find that the current version of your 20 year old thing is (allowing for inflation) cheaper, but not as good and won't last half as long.
I'm not a Luddite about technical gear. Much of it is far, far better than the pre-technical stuff, it's the constant engineering out of manufacturing costs that irritates. Happy to pay twice the price for something that works well, doesn't let you down when you need it to work and lasts twice as long and, in the case of shoes/boots are actually re-soleable!

Right. Off to the hills. Pip pip !

PS Rab started in 1981 as a one man band (Rab Carrington). He retired and it (+Loewe Alpine) were bought by Equip Outdoor Technologies - Moebius Equity Partners). Rather like Pod climbing rucsacs.

[Potter]

PS Rab started in 1981 as a one man band (Rab Carrington). He retired and it (+Loewe Alpine) were bought by Equip Outdoor Technologies - Moebius Equity Partners). Rather like Pod climbing rucsacs.

I did wonder yesterday if it was still as good as it was, I've had some Rab stuff over the years and it was excellent.

What I've noticed though is that some of the technical stuff feels flimsy, it's obviously made for a specific task and perhaps it's not expected to live forever, but it doesn't feel as substantial as stuff of old.

I've got a pair of technical trousers (the name of which escapes me atm) that I bought about 15yrs ago and the bloke in the shop told me they're their own worst enemy, because they'll last me a lifetime and I won't ever need to go back for another pair. He was right.

[Skub]

Stuff is 2x or 3x the price it was a year ago. I daresay every country is getting a taste of that.

[Bigyin]

I do appreciate that people don't do that sort of shopping every day but fook me it's expensive here.

Compared with where? [I'm deliberately avoiding the 'Dubai' cheap shot]

I know that for bike gear there was a company (Germany?) that did much cheaper prices than available in the UK.

Bikerland and FC Moto were 2 of the German companies that used to sell Rukka kit way cheaper than UK prices even with shipping costs. Bikerland even had English speaking staff to deal with UK enquiries as they got so much business from here

[Horse]

I do appreciate that people don't do that sort of shopping every day but fook me it's expensive here.

Compared with where? [I'm deliberately avoiding the 'Dubai' cheap shot]

I know that for bike gear there was a company (Germany?) that did much cheaper prices than available in the UK.

Bikerland and FC Moto were 2 of the German companies that used to sell Rukka kit way cheaper than UK prices even with shipping costs. Bikerland even had English speaking staff to deal with UK enquiries as they got so much business from here

I wonder how much of pricing variations is decided (whether headline cost or permitted discounts*) by the manufacturers on a country by country basis? If those two were substantially undercutting other German outlets, then that would seem odd. Or is it profiteering by UK sellers? [Although that's difficult if you're not selling stuff]

* Over the course of a few years I bought (@ work) over 40 cameras and extras, mainly GoPros. All from one source, who initially gave good discounts (I was typically buying £5k of kit at a time. However, that stopped, "GoPro won't let us discount".

[Count Steer]

PS Rab started in 1981 as a one man band (Rab Carrington). He retired and it (+Loewe Alpine) were bought by Equip Outdoor Technologies - Moebius Equity Partners). Rather like Pod climbing rucsacs.

I did wonder yesterday if it was still as good as it was, I've had some Rab stuff over the years and it was excellent.

What I've noticed though is that some of the technical stuff feels flimsy, it's obviously made for a specific task and perhaps it's not expected to live forever, but it doesn't feel as substantial as stuff of old.

I've got a pair of technical trousers (the name of which escapes me atm) that I bought about 15yrs ago and the bloke in the shop told me they're their own worst enemy, because they'll last me a lifetime and I won't ever need to go back for another pair. He was right.

I haven't bought any Rab gear for quite a while, but my wife has had several pairs of their stretch, thermal pants over the years and absolutely loves them. If a company gets taken over by a big outfit, sometimes they know they're buying a reputation and will maintain it, because that's where the value is. Sometimes quality/consistency can go up and product range and reach/availability increases. Other times it's an exercise in brand value destruction.

There are also things like Arcteryx*, which was a Canadian high end, niche maker of stuff for pretty serious use. They're now owned by Anta Sports (A Chinese sports equipment multinational corporation - the world's largest purely sports equipment company by revenue and third-largest manufacturer of sporting goods overall, behind Nike and Adidas). Now they seem to be (well made) high end sports-fashion wear - in the UK at least. Not that there's anything wrong with sports/tech fashion per se but it's not mountaineering kit any more! (If you want a laugh.... https://arcteryx.com/gb/en/c/mens £1900 for a parka, £900 for a bomber jacket ).

*I have one of their largish rucsacs from the 90s. It's absolutely bomb proof, a delight to wear, clearly designed by people who know their stuff. Downside is, it's heavy compared with modern bags. I've used it for years, friends have borrowed it for Munro bagging etc. It's been up and down mountains in all weathers and been roundly abused...it's as good as new.

Edit: I was a bit surprised to see Didriksons stuff in Cotswold (I knew they did/do? bike gear). Turns out they're another private equity buy out/value development. Started in 1913 by Julius and Hanna Didrikson in Sweden making workwear for fishermen - bought by Adelis Equity in 2018. I thought Morgan cars were one of the last hold-outs against 'brand value development' but they're owned by an Italian investment group Investindustrial since 2019. I suppose they needed a £ boost if they're going to have to go electric.

[Count Steer]

Oh, and while I was up the hill I took a photo. (Forgot my camera so used my phone).

A view familiar to many MTBers. It looked like the world was covered in smoke all the way to the South Downs.

[Bigyin]

I wonder how much of pricing variations is decided (whether headline cost or permitted discounts*) by the manufacturers on a country by country basis? If those two were substantially undercutting other German outlets, then that would seem odd. Or is it profiteering by UK sellers? [Although that's difficult if you're not selling stuff]

I know how much the mark up was as friends stocked Rukka in their bike shop and when I got married they let me have a full Rukka jacket and trousers at cost price as a wedding present ….. compared to the RRP it was half so a considerable mark up on what was, at the time, 800 quids worth of kit to the paying punter. Ze German places were selling the same suit for about 150 less. My friends were told not to discount the Rukka stuff by the UK importers as they wanted the price kept uniform across the UK. The only time they were allowed to discount was once the item was “last years design”

[Potter]

[I thought Morgan cars were one of the last hold-outs against 'brand value development' but they're owned by an Italian investment group Investindustrial since 2019. I suppose they needed a £ boost if they're going to have to go electric.

I've got a mate that has money in that IIRC.
And he also said he was chucking a big chunk into another old car brand because they're going to make/convert electric cars, I can't remember which brand, I have Austin Healey in my head but maybe not. I thought it sounded a bit risky but he's minted and thought it was worth a punt.

If the world lasts long enough it might end up that one massive group owns everything

[Yambo]

If the world lasts long enough it might end up that one massive group owns everything

China?

[Count Steer]

[I thought Morgan cars were one of the last hold-outs against 'brand value development' but they're owned by an Italian investment group Investindustrial since 2019. I suppose they needed a £ boost if they're going to have to go electric.

I've got a mate that has money in that IIRC.
And he also said he was chucking a big chunk into another old car brand because they're going to make/convert electric cars, I can't remember which brand, I have Austin Healey in my head but maybe not. I thought it sounded a bit risky but he's minted and thought it was worth a punt.

If the world lasts long enough it might end up that one massive group owns everything

I'm not totally despondent about the private equity thing. Companies need cash and it used to be they were 'owned' by the banks (who had absolutely no interest in product, ethos, market sector etc etc, just whether their loans were being repaid). The equity outfit that owns Didrikson is Swedish, the one that owns Morgan is Italian and several of them specialise in particular sectors and don't always trash a brand - even Pentland Group hasn't totally trashed Berghaus (interesting read on Wikipedia for anyone interested in this sort of thing, Alan Hinkes was an employee), I lived in Newcastle and bought stuff from their first shop, LD Mountain Centre). Also, if people put their heart and soul into something for years and build something successful , well if they want to cash out.

I just hope that individuals will still be able to have an idea, make something good for a particular market and build a company that lasts a generation or three before they cede control of it. I also like the idea that there's a 'right size' for a company and growth doesn't have to be just for the sake of it.

[Taipan]

One of the the things I needed was waterproof overtrousers. I didn't buy them but I did touch a pair priced at £220 TBH I could have bought a £12.99 pair of 'boil-in-the-bag' ones from Screwfix but I wanted something that you can get on/off with your boots on.

I get RAF surplus goretex ones off eBay - cost about £20 last time I got some and they are superb.

Good tip,thanks. I got a pair of German Army ones with braces.

[ChrisW]

Stopped off next to my daughter's favourite tree on a cycle ride this morning.