Qatar World Cup

[irie]

I suppose I don't really know.

Racism is widespread in France, but there is little public awareness about how widespread it is because the French government is legally prohibited from collecting any ethnic data. So because people don't hear about it they assume it doesn't exist.

As it happens I am a Francophone with French family, and the things I've heard said by them and others about "les noires" and other ethnic minorities is shocking.

[DefTrap]

I've said this before, I don't have a lot of time for expats. Most of us have moved away to change up our lives (boredom; sunshine; to get away from that awful Keir Starmer; opportunity; where they won't realise we're from Yorkshire etc), a lot of them are doing it because their previous lives were shitty. And the reason that some of their previous lives were shitty is that they're arseholes. Not massive arseholes maybe but just enough to grind you out with the complaining and sense of unfairness. They move abroad and the beer is cheap and isn't the weather nice but that smell of shit is different and it's still there. And they will tell you about it, in extravagant anecdotes in their loud self righteous English voices in French bars. I'll bet they're the ones who find they get snarky remarks from the locals.

Everyone complains about their own country. Complaining about your adopted country I always find a bit rich, and you will get zero sympathy.

[Mr. Dazzle]

I can't remember which thread it was I mentioned it, t'wasn't this one, but in amongst the "stuff I reckon" there is one thing I still stand by. I you perceive the rest of the country/world as aggy or arseholeish it's almost certain the problem is you.

People is people ja? I don't think underlying national norms really change that fundamentally.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Yeah OK fair point

I doubt many Jews emigrated to Nazi Germany though.

[Noggin]

I suppose I don't really know.

Racism is widespread in France, but there is little public awareness about how widespread it is because the French government is legally prohibited from collecting any ethnic data. So because people don't hear about it they assume it doesn't exist.

As it happens I am a Francophone with French family, and the things I've heard said by them and others about "les noires" and other ethnic minorities is shocking.

My "don't know" comment was in response to, is it worse (racism) than anywhere else

And, yes, some of the comments of the French are blatant. BUT - they are no different to the UK 50 - 40 - 30 years ago. I sometimes catch snippets of comedy I was aware or or watched in my youth - No way would it be acceptable now.

In many things, France is 2-30 years behind the uk. So, they will change and are changing. As with many other countries, there are more and more non French and they are integrating, so in a few more years (ok, 10 ish+) things will look not dissimilar to what people think the UK is like now (for those that think they UK isn't as racist as other countries)

But, given the choice between here and the UK, I'm stopping here. In fact, if I have to leave here, I'd find somewhere else that isn't the UK

[demographic]

Wasn't the recent report that described racism and misogyny being at "Pelandemic levels" based on Londons fire service?
Thats no excuse mind, just adding some context.

[wheelnut]

Aside from that you've got children dying in social housing because the conditions are so bad. A C4 documentary yesterday said that around a million other properties are well below standard and tens of thousands of people are at risk of serious illness or death. Sit up straight people, that's a child killed by mould in housing in the UK that is worse than anything I've ever seen in the Middle East.

So you’re quite willing to accept the validity of uk media reports about conditions in the UK, but not in the Middle East because you personally haven’t seen it?

There was an interesting comment piece in the Times today from a 23 year old Qatari woman from a wealthy family. She wasn’t exactly complaining about her lot in life and it was a fairly well balanced piece, but the lack of rights afforded to women there, even wealthy women, are hard to fathom in this day and age.

[Mr. Dazzle]

"Pelandemic levels"

Isn't that when you get loads of cyclists blocking the road?

[mangocrazy]

"Pelandemic levels"

Isn't that when you get loads of cyclists blocking the road?

Peletondemic, old bean...

[cheb]

"Pelandemic levels"

Isn't that when you get loads of cyclists blocking the road?

Peletondemic, old bean...

Err no, it doesn't read the same backwards and forwards.

[Count Steer]

Isn't that when you get loads of cyclists blocking the road?

Peletondemic, old bean...

Err no, it doesn't read the same backwards and forwards.

Isn't that a velodrome?

[weeksy]

Peletondemic, old bean...

Err no, it doesn't read the same backwards and forwards.

Isn't that a velodrome?

This thread is just going round in circles now

[Dodgy69]

It'll be a sad day, when every country on the planet becomes westernised with little national identity. I'll be off to Mars with Mr Musk and friends.

[demographic]

"Pelandemic levels"

Isn't that when you get loads of cyclists blocking the road?

Naah, it's when you misstype on a phone and don't notice til someone else points it out.

[wheelnut]

It'll be a sad day, when every country on the planet becomes westernised with little national identity. I'll be off to Mars with Mr Musk and friends.

I think John Adams was perhaps correct about democracy - it’s given us a lot of good in western nations, but it does come at a price. Whether that will eventually be too high a price to pay, who knows?

That said, once you see that people have (fairly) equal rights, it’s difficult to look at countries who deprive rights to their citizens based on their gender or colour and think that it’s right.

[irie]

Apologies for interrupting Potter in full flow by mentioning football in this thread.

Riots in Belgium after Morocco beat Belgium.

https://www.dw.com/en/world-cup-violenc ... a-63909568

Police used water cannons to disperse crowds in Belgium's capital after the mood turned sour during the country's shock defeat to Morocco at the FIFA World Cup on Sunday.

Even before the end of the match, "dozens of people, including some wearing hoodies, sought confrontation with the police, which compromised public safety," Brussels police said in a statement.

Rioters smashed shop windows, threw fireworks, and torched vehicles. Videos posted on social media showed people smashing the windows of a red car before flipping it and setting it alight.

[Noggin]

But, given the choice between here and the UK, I'm stopping here. In fact, if I have to leave here, I'd find somewhere else that isn't the UK

I totally get it, my daughters are the same, they simply don't feel safe in the UK.
A national report released recently on misogyny and racism in the UK, led by a former chief crown prosecutor, says it's at pandemic levels and needs to be addressed as a pandemic, but the level of ignorance towards it is at least as bad. Bullying at work is an occupational hazard and abuse is so widespread that people think it's normal.

Aside from that you've got children dying in social housing because the conditions are so bad. A C4 documentary yesterday said that around a million other properties are well below standard and tens of thousands of people are at risk of serious illness or death. Sit up straight people, that's a child killed by mould in housing in the UK that is worse than anything I've ever seen in the Middle East.

The UK is great place if you've got money and now I'm back in the UK in my country cottage typing this by the fireside I'm very happy, it's a brilliant place to be, but I'm one of the few, I've got money and I don't need to work - I wouldn't want to be short of cash, living in social housing that could kill my children, or working for a living in a toxic environment that makes you commit suicide because it's that bad.

But it seems I'm a traitor for saying so and I'll probably get more shit for it, I should be ignoring all that and frothing that a lesbian activist was made to take her hat off for five minutes by "savages" on the other side of the world.

I generally agree with you. But then, I've suffered far more discrimination in the UK than I have here - I'm aware of chauvinism here and I'm aware of discrimination. But for me personally, it's way better here than back in the Uk. I've not been here so long, yet, but still. The main reason I'm here is due to work conditions and bullying at work being so bad where I worked in the UK I had to leave or not survive. (More than one job were bad, but the last nearly killed me ). And at that time, jobs were hard to get - believe me, I tried!

Aside from that you've got children dying in social housing because the conditions are so bad. A C4 documentary yesterday said that around a million other properties are well below standard and tens of thousands of people are at risk of serious illness or death. Sit up straight people, that's a child killed by mould in housing in the UK that is worse than anything I've ever seen in the Middle East.

So you’re quite willing to accept the validity of uk media reports about conditions in the UK, but not in the Middle East because you personally haven’t seen it?

There was an interesting comment piece in the Times today from a 23 year old Qatari woman from a wealthy family. She wasn’t exactly complaining about her lot in life and it was a fairly well balanced piece, but the lack of rights afforded to women there, even wealthy women, are hard to fathom in this day and age.

But you think that women are not discriminated against in the UK? And the living conditions in the uk are not great for a lot of people. But, don't believe what you read in the paper because, well, it's not true is it?

It'll be a sad day, when every country on the planet becomes westernised with little national identity. I'll be off to Mars with Mr Musk and friends.

I think John Adams was perhaps correct about democracy - it’s given us a lot of good in western nations, but it does come at a price. Whether that will eventually be too high a price to pay, who knows?

That said, once you see that people have (fairly) equal rights, it’s difficult to look at countries who deprive rights to their citizens based on their gender or colour and think that it’s right.

I don't think the uk does afford all its citizens equal rights. Not in mine and friends experiences. But, ok!

[wheelnut]

I don't think the uk does afford all its citizens equal rights. Not in mine and friends experiences. But, ok!

I’d agree that the level of advantage granted to people can vary wildly, and than can also be subject to personal experience. A person’s rights however are a different thing, and people in the UK most definitely do have equal rights.


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c57c ... 5a260a8aa4

[Greenman]

Has everyone not concluded to the fact FIFA are a bunch of corrupt wankers yet?

OK Qatar have their beliefs as i mentioned in my other post but the non rist band thing was imposed by FIFA not Qatar.

I'm probably late in saying this but all these arguments in the commentry are yet more western media trying to trick and impose yet more negative views on the east. Don't be fooled!

[wheelnut]

The article contains falsity, for example, she says migrant workers cannot live in Doha and they have to live in labour camps, which is simply not true, when I worked there over fifteen years ago we lived next-door to two Filipino lads and our Sri Lankan mechanic lived in a flat down the road. I worked for a UK company that didn't discriminate based on passports, so we all got the same accommodation regardless of where we came from and there is no Qatari rule or law against it.

She also says they can't live there with their family, also not true, if they can afford to then they can bring their family to live there.

You're not addressing the main point of the article. And Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch would disagree with your assessment.

It was never locals, they're too polite and cultured to ever do anything like that - in fact they're the ones putting these rules in to protect women.

I suspect that the reality of it is that the laws are there mainly to protect a man's property. Slight difference.

The other stuff is cultural and I'm certainly no expert, but IME a father wouldn't dream of abandoning his elderly mother into a nursing home, or having his daughter live alone in a flat. He wouldn't be doing it out of spite, it's just that their culture has the father at the centre and he's responsible for everyone both physically and morally.

I'm not claiming it's right (or wrong),.... <waffle>

So are you saying that if the UK started to subjugate women, took away their right to travel and have pretty much have no independent rights then the UK would be a better place?

I would certainly agree that it's not black and white and other cultures have much to be admired and emulated. But some things just aren't right. I think even they know that in modern times the way they treat women is not acceptable and slow progress is being made. Women's right to drive in Saudi for example.