Triumph hot start problem.

[gremlin]

Noticed a couple of times recently that if I stop somewhere quickly then try to start the Tiger, the starter kicks over with all the energy of me on a Sunday morning after a night on the lash. Happened this morning when I managed to stall it at some lights and then had to inconvenience half of east London trying to get it off the Highway. . A few minutes later when the engine had cooled a bit it eventually started, albeit reluctantly.

Reading up I'm seeing several explanations, from lower voltage output from older batteries to brushes worn out on the starter motor to increased resistance in the loom when it's hot. Anybody shed any light on it? My battery is probably over three years old now, so granted it may be on the wain, but it starts on the button from cold. That'll be the easiest/cheapest solution. New starter is a bit toppy.....

[Taff]

Mine did that for quite a while until I got bored of pushing the bike away from the petrol pump to let it cool for 5 mins.
I changed the starter motor and that fixed it.

Be warned, (iirc) the first line of the triumph manual says.. to remove the starter motor, first remove the engine.

It can be done without removing the engine, but it is a complete twat to get the starter out of the frame, and mega fiddly to get some of the electrical connections that you need to disconnect done back up again.

[gremlin]

Be warned, (iirc) the first line of the triumph manual says.. to remove the starter motor, first remove the engine.

[v8-powered]

Had this on my Sprint - was the starter motor brushes. Purchased a kit from Sprint Manufacturing, took about 30mins to fit.

[KungFooBob]

Time to sell it and buy a nice BMW like everyone else

[gremlin]

Time to sell it and buy a nice BMW like everyone else

Where's the Smite button when you need it?

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

Hot starting problems usually equals tight valve clearances, when were they last checked?

[gremlin]

Hot starting problems usually equals tight valve clearances, when were they last checked?

Christ....now you've got ne thinking.

[Taff]

Hot starting problems usually equals tight valve clearances, when were they last checked?

If the bike is doing the same as mine did, when hot, the starter motor sounds like the battery is dead and can't turn the engine over, as soon as it cools down a bit it cranks normally and fires up straight away.

[gremlin]

Hot starting problems usually equals tight valve clearances, when were they last checked?

If the bike is doing the same as mine did, when hot, the starter motor sounds like the battery is dead and can't turn the engine over, as soon as it cools down a bit it cranks normally and fires up straight away.

Bang on.

Luckily today I was desperate for a pee, so that helped the cooling process.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

Hot starting problems usually equals tight valve clearances, when were they last checked?

If the bike is doing the same as mine did, when hot, the starter motor sounds like the battery is dead and can't turn the engine over, as soon as it cools down a bit it cranks normally and fires up straight away.

I had a 1979 GSX750 that did exactly that, it was the engine getting tight when it was hot, I never found out the exact cause as a big end let go which pretty much made the engine junk, hopefully Gremlins is a lot more minor.

Tight valve clearances the engine spins over but won't start.

[Taff]

Hot starting problems usually equals tight valve clearances, when were they last checked?

If the bike is doing the same as mine did, when hot, the starter motor sounds like the battery is dead and can't turn the engine over, as soon as it cools down a bit it cranks normally and fires up straight away.

I had a 1979 GSX750 that did exactly that, it was the engine getting tight when it was hot, I never found out the exact cause as a big end let go which pretty much made the engine junk, hopefully Gremlins is a lot more minor.

Tight valve clearances the engine spins over but won't start.

yeah, I've heard of quite a few tigers with this same problem and like mine, a new starter motor cures it straight away

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

So probably the starter motor getting tired, though you'd think the engine would be easier to start when it's hot.

[Taff]

So probably the starter motor getting tired, though you'd think the engine would be easier to start when it's hot.

well, it's not really about the mechanical engine bits, it about the starter motor's inability to conduct electricery at high temp

[A_morti]

With this type of problem where proper diagnosis is hard or beyond my skillset, I'll fire the parts cannon at the cheapest stuff first.
So, by that motto:
1) Remove and clean all terminals in the starter circuit, including the engine earth, starter solenoid, battery, and starter motor terminals.
2) Change the battery, IME they rarely get past their third winter.
3) Starter motor... I'd start by opening it and tapping out the dust, maybe dressing the existing brushes if they're not worn out. Then maybe replace the brushes, and only then change the starter itself. That may change if it's a real shit to get at, in which case I might just change it.
4) Start looking for other issues like tight valves (It's rare to go out of spec on most engines, how often do they need adjusting on that engine?), bad coils, etc.

Time to sell it and buy a nice BMW like everyone else

Yeh, do that
viewtopic.php?t=6618

I had a 1979 GSX750 that did exactly that, it was the engine getting tight when it was hot, I never found out the exact cause as a big end let go

Read that again slowly...

[v8-powered]

With this type of problem where proper diagnosis is hard or beyond my skillset, I'll fire the parts cannon at the cheapest stuff first.
So, by that motto:
1) Remove and clean all terminals in the starter circuit, including the engine earth, starter solenoid, battery, and starter motor terminals.
2) Change the battery, IME they rarely get past their third winter.
3) Starter motor... I'd start by opening it and tapping out the dust, maybe dressing the existing brushes if they're not worn out. Then maybe replace the brushes, and only then change the starter itself. That may change if it's a real shit to get at, in which case I might just change it.
4) Start looking for other issues like tight valves (It's rare to go out of spec on most engines, how often do they need adjusting on that engine?), bad coils, etc.

All sound advice and mostly known issues with Triumph of that vintage. My ST1050 is a 2011 model and has the the following to cure the dreaded starting issues:

'Pudding' cables - upgraded cables to the starter and battery terminals etc
New starter relay
Battery every 2 or 3 years, use a higher CCA rated than OEM
Starter motor strip, clean and new brushes / springs

Mine can be left for weeks without a trickle charger and never fails to start now - compare that to many you hear about that can only manage a handful of days. Also make sure nothing daft connected like USB phone / sat nag chargers connected to permanent live

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

I had a 1979 GSX750 that did exactly that, it was the engine getting tight when it was hot, I never found out the exact cause as a big end let go

Read that again slowly...

Why, the big end letting go was caused by all the oil coming out when the drain plug came unscrewed by itself, the bike wasn't one of my better motorcycle purchases, what's annoying is that when I bought it, I could have bought a CB750F (twin cam) for £50 less, but bought the GSX because I thought the CBs had a poor reputation for reliability, the CB looked nicer and handled better.

[Bwana]

Hot starting problems usually equals tight valve clearances, when were they last checked?

If the bike is doing the same as mine did, when hot, the starter motor sounds like the battery is dead and can't turn the engine over, as soon as it cools down a bit it cranks normally and fires up straight away.

Bang on.

Luckily today I was desperate for a pee, so that helped the cooling process.

Yebbut it smells awful as the piss steams off that hot engine.