Qatar World Cup

[Yorick]

Lots of black players in England get racial abuse at grounds, so taking the knee there is aimed at the idiots. But no place for it at the World Cup.

[G.P]

Still a little disapointed in the players that they didn't just say "fuck you" and not bother going. It's slightly unlrealistic of course... but i really wish they had.

It shouldn't have been awarded, then it should have been rescinded, then EUFA should have protested, then the FA should have protested....
I think once the individual countries have accepted that its OK for the world cup to be there, you either need to refuse to play in qualifying matches or go along with it. We're doing the latter.

It just amazes me how the FIFA Hierarchy keep support.The answer is of course corruption, buying support of the smaller nations. It really does need a fire putting underneath it though.

Anyway, come on England & Wales

[wheelnut]

I stopped watching professional football in the 1990s once they formed a corporation called the Premier League and it became purely about money.
You could argue that post 1960 (IIRC) when they removed wage caps and allowed big money transfers was the start of it, or perhaps was it 1978 (IIRC or was it '79) when Francis did the £1m transfer.
What else? Since then a lot of the big clubs have sold out to corporations, named their grounds or even the league after them - you're not telling me that was all honest money with honest intentions.

Arguing corruption specific to one tournament is a bit pointless, the whole game has been dragged into it over decades, this is just a small part of it.

Yes football is money driven, and yes there will be incentives involved, but the reason for the quite severe reaction to this WC is more the human rights records of Qatar rather than the financing of it.

And I realise this will generate another ButWhatAbout post.

[Count Steer]

I stopped watching professional football in the 1990s once they formed a corporation called the Premier League and it became purely about money.
You could argue that post 1960 (IIRC) when they removed wage caps and allowed big money transfers was the start of it, or perhaps was it 1978 (IIRC or was it '79) when Francis did the £1m transfer.
What else? Since then a lot of the big clubs have sold out to corporations, named their grounds or even the league after them - you're not telling me that was all honest money with honest intentions.

Arguing corruption specific to one tournament is a bit pointless, the whole game has been dragged into it over decades, this is just a small part of it.

Yes football is money driven, and yes there will be incentives involved, but the reason for the quite severe reaction to this WC is more the human rights records of Qatar rather than the financing of it.

And I realise this will generate another ButWhatAbout post.

Perfect storm innit? As soon as FIFA executives sold the event to a minor footballing country they just opened Pandora's box (again). It's too hot, too many teams (some of which really shouldn't be there), it's the wrong time of year, they're not very nice to imported workers, gays, women, they've turned the beer off....ad nauseum.

It may give the IOC pause for thought next time they're selling (and collecting 'gifts' for) the Olympics though.

[Yambo]

I understand that some FIFA official wants North Korea to host a WC (World Cup, not the other one).

That won't be about money.

[wheelnut]

Yes football is money driven, and yes there will be incentives involved, but the reason for the quite severe reaction to this WC is more the human rights records of Qatar rather than the financing of it.

And I realise this will generate another ButWhatAbout post.

I disagree, Rashford, Sancho and Saka got outrageous racist abuse just for fluffing penalties in Euro 2020, but now you want me to believe that the British working man is coming out in solidarity with the rights of Pakistani and Bangladeshi bricklayers working in Qatar?
Don't make me laugh.

No one gives a hoot about Bangladeshi workers in Qatar, it's just another excuse for militant activists to pout and racists to bash a Middle East Muslim country.

You forgot to mention the treatment of American natives and British imperialism.

You could probably squeeze the price of hay in there somewhere as well (which would be quite fitting with the straw men you look to create).

Qatar is Qatar, it’s a different culture that I would respect if I chose to visit there. That is different from being deserving of respect.

[DefTrap]

I disagree, Rashford, Sancho and Saka got outrageous racist abuse just for fluffing penalties in Euro 2020, but now you want me to believe that the British working man is coming out in solidarity with the rights of Pakistani and Bangladeshi bricklayers working in Qatar?
Don't make me laugh.

No one gives a hoot about Bangladeshi workers in Qatar, it's just another excuse for militant activists to pout and racists to bash a Middle East Muslim country.

It probably is class driven. IF you conflate working classes with being racist and IF middle-liberal classes are all wokey.
But it's a bit of a leap and not super helpful.

[Hoonercat]

I bet if you rounded up the Bangladeshis and Pakistanis working in Qatar and asked them who are the the biggest racists, the Qataris or the British, I'd bet a pound to a pinch of shit every one of them to a man would be pointing the finger at whitey.

I bet you could replace 'British' with any other nationality and get the same result. Can't think why...
Though you might have a problem rounding them all up in the first place, freedom of assembly laws don't apply to them.

[Noggin]

I bet if you rounded up the Bangladeshis and Pakistanis working in Qatar and asked them who are the the biggest racists, the Qataris or the British, I'd bet a pound to a pinch of shit every one of them to a man would be pointing the finger at whitey.

I bet you could replace 'British' with any other nationality and get the same result. Can't think why...
Though you might have a problem rounding them all up in the first place, freedom of assembly laws don't apply to them.

Do they still apply in the UK or did Johnson succeed in stopping all that?

[Mr. Dazzle]

Rounding people up is frowned upon these days anyway.

It would be nice if these professional sportspeople, of any profession, had some integrity. Do you think rights are important or not? Or is it just an armband.

It's basically "thoughts and prayers" innit.

[Mussels]

The England team bottled any kind of symbol of protest.
Meanwhile the Iranian team didn't sing their national anthem in protest.

It appears that the British team are more worried about the consequences of protest than the Iranians.

I thought the England team were still going to do the bouncy knee thing, did they scrap that too?

[DefTrap]

The only real protest is staying away, and none of them did that, everything else will hardly get a mention.l and is already yesterdays news. Like Joe lycett and his 10k.

England did take a knee, but blink and you'd have missed it.

[Supermofo]

I can see why England/Wales pulled the armbands as FIFA said the player would get a yellow card which could see them missing games. The FA up to that point were going to accept some form of punishment.

However I would love it if England or Wales are out of the group playing for 3rd or in the final for the whole team to wear them.

Personally my dislike of this WC is not really aimed at Qatar but FIFA, Qatar did what they are able to afford and went for it although I should imagine they are wondering why they bothered now. FIFA are so bent its laughable. I mean 14 of the 15 men who awarded the Russia/Qatar world cups have been arrested for a string of charges. Qatar are who Qatar are, FIFA are wankers of the highest order who serve no one but their pockets.

[Mr. Dazzle]

I can see why England/Wales pulled the armbands as FIFA said the player would get a yellow card which could see them missing games. The FA up to that point were going to accept some form of punishment.

That's my point really. They believe in a cause juuuussssst up to the point where they're required to actually take action which would impact them in a meaningful way. How much more powerful would the message have been if they'd worn the armband anyway and taken the booking?

This is far from limited to football players of course.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slacktivism

[irie]

To put this armband stuff into perspective ...

Qatar’s women can’t work, study or travel without a man’s permission – where’s their armband?

While everyone else agonises over wearing a rainbow flag for the World Cup, they are stuck in a repressive regime of guardianship

SUZANNE MOORE22 November 2022 • 6:00am

The problem for women, I often think, is that we are not a handy acronym. We don’t have a recognisable flag unless, I suppose, you count the Suffrage colours, which got one poor soul wearing a purple, green and white scarf “accidentally” thrown out of the Scottish Parliament last week. Women’s rights are not much of a fashionable cause these days and are mentioned often as an afterthought.

This is particularly evident in Qatar, where footballers and commentators are struggling to make righteous statements about the tiny but hugely rich country they are in. The agonising around wearing a rainbow flag armband seems to me a substitution for real thought. Obviously, it is terrible to stage the tournament in a place where homosexuality is illegal and even punishable by death, but identity politics flails against the reality of choosing to play in a country that adheres to the strict sect of Salafism, often referred to as Wahhabism, which is prevalent in both Qatar and Saudi. 

This interpretation of Islam also has severe consequences for women, who live under a repressive regime of guardianship. Human Rights Watch calls it “deep discrimination”. Women have to obtain men’s permission (usually their father’s or brother’s) to marry, to travel, to get educated. (An app that allows men to veto travel permits, driving licences and other government services for unmarried women under 25 has been downloaded a million times.) Neither rape nor domestic violence is illegal. Men can marry up to four wives but can divorce any wife without even informing them about it. Divorce for women is limited, even if the marriage is abusive. Women are not guardians of their own children. They do not have the authority to make decisions about their own children’s schools, finances or medical treatment. A woman who reports rape may be sent to prison. 

During the pandemic, one such woman, “Asma”, compared her life with a permanent lockdown. “For girls – you are [constantly] in quarantine. What the whole world experiences now, this is the normal life for girls [in Qatar]. I wanted to study abroad but it was a no from my parents, even though I had a scholarship.”
I don’t expect footballers to understand all the ways in which Qatari women’s lives are curtailed. After all, on the surface it is true that many Qatari women live privileged lives and are very sophisticated and educated. They have maids, drivers and nannies who do all the domestic work and are paid a pittance. (It is not just the migrant workers who built the stadiums that are treated badly.)

Yet even with an army of servants, Qatari women’s lives are still ruled by the whims of their families. What is difficult to grasp is that guardianship does not operate simply through law, but through households. It is a mix of policies and practices, cultural and religious. 

And, although the government and an increasing number of Qatari women talk about gender equality, women’s rights and female empowerment, the reality is that there is nowhere to go to complain and no monitoring of how women are treated. What the government really does is hand down a mandate to families to keep control of their girls in every way possible. If a father wants to pull his daughter out of education and beat her, then that is fine. The extreme patriarchal nature of Wahhabism means that everything a woman does is controlled; the honour and reputation of her family is paramount.

The scrutiny that the World Cup has brought is welcomed by some young women who want the system exposed, but freedom of expression is also limited in Qatar. 

When Fifa president Gianni Infantino, who is said to be well integrated into Qatari society and must surely know some of this, gave his deranged monologue about feeling gay, disabled, African etc, it was pointed out that he had missed out half the world’s population so he added: “I feel like a woman, too.” The backdrop to all this are surely the protests in Iran, whose courageous male football team refused to sing their national anthem before the match against England.

But Qatari women and their rights? Hidden away, invisible, not displayed on any armband. It is as if their lives were but a postscript to this whole sordid enterprise.

[DefTrap]

That's my point really. They believe in a cause juuuussssst up to the point where they're required to actually take action which would impact them in a meaningful way. How much more powerful would the message have been if they'd worn the armband anyway and taken the booking?

Total lack of balls throughout. Give FIFA some credit though, they know how to run a dictatorship.

[Supermofo]

I can see why England/Wales pulled the armbands as FIFA said the player would get a yellow card which could see them missing games. The FA up to that point were going to accept some form of punishment.

That's my point really. They believe in a cause juuuussssst up to the point where they're required to actually take action which would impact them in a meaningful way. How much more powerful would the message have been if they'd worn the armband anyway and taken the booking?

This is far from limited to football players of course.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slacktivism

I think if you are going down that route then the team shouldn't have gone to the world cup. IMO all the Euro teams hand wringing is just that, if they had the bollocks they'd have not gone, all of them that would have sent the message to FIFA. But if the team is going then you can't ask 1 player to potentially miss the world cup final or whatever.

However, if the team felt strongly enough then a different player wears the armband each match. Let's face it a captain's arm band is meaningless anyway.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Sandy Kofax and Eric Liddel both showed that sometimes things can be more important that sport.

I can't think of any more examples than that, which probably tells you something

[Taipan]

Laura McAllister made to remove her rainbow hat as she entered the stadium! It's a coloured hat ffs!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-63710435

[DefTrap]

However, if the team felt strongly enough then a different player wears the armband each match. Let's face it a captain's arm band is meaningless anyway.

Given that criticism of the response is at least as popular as criticism of the Qatar regime, you can imagine how that would've gone. And again, done unilaterally it means less and less, close to nothing - Kane wearing an armband and being booked yesterday would have raised a headline in the UK, I doubt many other nations would care.