Cost of Living Crisis

[JackyJoll]

Triple lock on pensions remains. Madness.

Good madness for some.

[Docca]

[irie]

The current critical position of both household and government finances is largely the result of the perfect storm of the government's largesse during the 'Chinese Disease', exacerbated by the following energy crisis triggered by the war in Ukraine.

People can scream as much as they want, but the indesputable fact is that people have been both beneficiaries of the government's largesse and victims of the energy crisis.

The former is borrowing which has to be paid back, and the latter is unavoidable. Fact.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

I think I might start putting "fact" on the end of all my posts, even though they're my opinion, it looks really cool and makes out that my opinion is fact.

[DefTrap]

I think the accidental Marxists on here need to do more to level the playing field of selfishness

[Horse]

I think I might start putting "fact" on the end of all my posts, even though they're my opinion, it looks really cool and makes out that my opinion is fact.

Word (fact)

For extra emphasis and to ensure full audience appreciation, quote yourself too.

[Count Steer]

I think the accidental Marxists on here need to do more to level the playing field of selfishness

Fact.

[irie]

The current critical position of both household and government finances is largely the result of the perfect storm of the government's largesse during the 'Chinese Disease', exacerbated by the following energy crisis triggered by the war in Ukraine.

People can scream as much as they want, but the indesputable fact is that people have been both beneficiaries of the government's largesse and victims of the energy crisis.

The former is borrowing which has to be paid back, and the latter is unavoidable. Fact.

I think I might start putting "fact" on the end of all my posts, even though they're my opinion, it looks really cool and makes out that my opinion is fact.

Perhaps you would care to explain how (a) government borrowing does not have to be paid back and (b) how energy prices rises were not triggered by Russia's war against Ukraine?

Thanks.

[Ant]

It's all very simple in thought, but there would be a massive uproar from the incredibly vocal few at the thought of cutting money for foreign aid, the hotels for migrants and haemorrhaging money to Ukraine. We'd probably see massive protests and riots from the wonky fringed vegans.

I was a bit upset with more money being poured into the NHS, with the wasted funds they get, they get more to waste.

Never mind them, I'm surprised there aren't riots and looting from the higher tax earners, they're the ones paying for all this.

The government doesn't have any money, they only have what they take off people (and borrow (to be paid back by tax payers)), and the majority of all the money they spend/waste is taken off higher tax bracket people. They're the ones that should be shouting loudest because the higher earners are poring money into a bottomless pit to fund everyone else.

The rioting and the looting generally comes from those who don't have anything better to be doing. The ones who pay for it all, will be doing something better, they're at work.

Something happened at work a few weeks back or so, when the mini budget was announced that the higher rate earners were going to get a break in their tax band. One of the guys there who's a bit of a lefty did that angered left wing thing, where they turn into a Jack Russel, with hate and rage, where the muscles in their face are about to rip through their skin (I've never understood how people can get so hate consumed).

He called me selfish for not wanting the £150k ++ people wanting to be taxed to the death. When I say I don't want it to happen, it's not that I actively do not seek it, it's more that I don't actively seek it, they probably pay more tax than I earn or somewhere there abouts, maybe, so who's got the face to tell them the burden is theirs when they probably take nothing from the public purse, but heavily contribute into it?

I didn't understand this, as surely with most of us in that office being on less than £100k, it would make me not selfish to be wanting someone elses money, But ho hum.

[Ant]

The current critical position of both household and government finances is largely the result of the perfect storm of the government's largesse during the 'Chinese Disease', exacerbated by the following energy crisis triggered by the war in Ukraine.

People can scream as much as they want, but the indesputable fact is that people have been both beneficiaries of the government's largesse and victims of the energy crisis.

The former is borrowing which has to be paid back, and the latter is unavoidable. Fact.

I agree with this. Yesterday, when Jeremy Hunt had finished, up came Rachel Reeves, she blamed everything on the 'Tories', the lot. That saddened me, as with that thought shared largely across the Labour party, shows me that Labour aren't ready to be an opposition, as they can't see the true cost to us that Ukraine is having, they can't see the true cost to us that the 'pandemic' had, Labour are blaming the lot on the 'Tories' and none of it firmly on those who caused it.

[Ant]

I agree with this. Yesterday, when Jeremy Hunt had finished, up came Rachel Reeves, she blamed everything on the 'Tories', the lot. That saddened me, as with that thought shared largely across the Labour party, shows me that Labour aren't ready to be an opposition, as they can't see the true cost to us that Ukraine is having, they can't see the true cost to us that the 'pandemic' had, Labour are blaming the lot on the 'Tories' and none of it firmly on those who caused it.

Political parties don't try to give balanced views, they try to get into power.

It seems like many don't understand this, and they believe what suits their bias, so if Labour tells you that rich people are to blame for everything and it suits your agenda then you'll grasp it - examples from the other side of the political spectrum are available.

I suppose they have to don't they, as they claim this wouldn't have happened under Labour and that Labour will this, Labour will that, which is a bit dangerous, as if Labour get in, nothing will change, then they'll be in for a grilling as they told us everything will be better. They're making some seriously big promises, which I doubt anyone with any sense truly believes they're capable of.

[irie]

Perhaps you would care to explain how (a) government borrowing does not have to be paid back and (b) how energy prices rises were not triggered by Russia's war against Ukraine?

Thanks.

You're not wrong ...

This ^^^

... but you could argue those points back and forth with no clear winner, e.g. energy prices was a reaction just like when petrol ran out in garages in the UK, it didn't have to, it was just a reaction, but there were other alternatives - which I don't want a back and forth about either.

The exact reasons why the UK is in shit state can be argued all day long, personally I measure my predictions by how did I react and if I'm making financial decisions based on it then have I made or lost money, it's a great leveller, you can be as right about global and domestic economics as you want to think you are, but if it's cost you then you're probably not as right at guessing what's going on as you think you are.

I'm not arguing.

[irie]

I don't give a monkeys what colour rosette you wear, I'll vote for the most centre of the road bunch that are around at the time.

As I do.

[DefTrap]

I was watching 'How the other half live' on the tv last night (documentary with actor Brian Cox) (yeah he's a well known lefty)

Interesting to see how billionaires live - billionaire John Caudwell's Mayfair mansion was unbelievably ostentatious (and not a little tacky in the main). But it was interesting how he even saw that as 'business' - "I spent 70 million on renovating it, but it's now worth 90 million more", something like that. And let's be fair, in one go he's generated 70 million quid of business, that most of us are unlikely to do in several fecking lifetimes. Caudwell lives like an effing King now but has a pretty ordinary background, and a fairly unremarkable work life until his mid 30s. Like I say, interesting stuff for that reason alone.

It's worth watching anyway, it's worth bearing Brian Cox (who I don't find very likeable), who seems to genuinely still suffer the conflict of being brought up in absolute poverty but has dragged himself out of it, and yet returning to his roots nothing much seems to have changed for those at the bottom.
I think there's a message in there somewhere. I dunno what it is though. TBF I didn't quite make it to the end to see what BC's conclusion was.

[Yorick]

I was watching 'How the other half live' on the tv last night (documentary with actor Brian Cox) (yeah he's a well known lefty)

Interesting to see how billionaires live - billionaire John Caudwell's Mayfair mansion was unbelievably ostentatious (and not a little tacky in the main). But it was interesting how he even saw that as 'business' - "I spent 70 million on renovating it, but it's now worth 90 million more", something like that. And let's be fair, in one go he's generated 70 million quid of business, that most of us are unlikely to do in several fecking lifetimes.

It's worth watching anyway, it's worth bearing Brian Cox (who I don't find very likeable), who seems to genuinely still suffer the conflict of being brought up in absolute poverty but has dragged himself out of it, and yet returning to his roots nothing much seems to have changed for those at the bottom.
I think there's a message in there somewhere. I dunno what it is though. TBF I didn't quite make it to the end to see what BC's conclusion was.

What channel?

[DefTrap]

What channel?

Channel 5 I think

[Hoonercat]

It's all very simple in thought, but there would be a massive uproar from the incredibly vocal few at the thought of cutting money for foreign aid, the hotels for migrants and haemorrhaging money to Ukraine. We'd probably see massive protests and riots from the wonky fringed vegans.

I was a bit upset with more money being poured into the NHS, with the wasted funds they get, they get more to waste.

I don't think the govt really care about the vocal few, they're never going to vote Tory anyway.

The current critical position of both household and government finances is largely the result of the perfect storm of the government's largesse during the 'Chinese Disease', exacerbated by the following energy crisis triggered by the war in Ukraine.

People can scream as much as they want, but the indesputable fact is that people have been both beneficiaries of the government's largesse and victims of the energy crisis.

The former is borrowing which has to be paid back, and the latter is unavoidable. Fact.

I agree with this. Yesterday, when Jeremy Hunt had finished, up came Rachel Reeves, she blamed everything on the 'Tories', the lot. That saddened me, as with that thought shared largely across the Labour party, shows me that Labour aren't ready to be an opposition, as they can't see the true cost to us that Ukraine is having, they can't see the true cost to us that the 'pandemic' had, Labour are blaming the lot on the 'Tories' and none of it firmly on those who caused it.

So you agree that the govt's largesse is part responsible, you don't think they should be financing the Ukraine war, or paying hotels for refugees, or giving foreign aid, and you don't agree with more financing for the NHS? And I assume you agree that the situation the country has found itself in recently, with Tory candidates promising tax cuts and huge spending, only for the govt to do a complete u-turn a few weeks later, doesn't exactly instil confidence in their ability to run the country?
But your main fixation is the opposition pointing out government failings...

I think there's broad agreement on this forum that the current energy and financial issues are global, and that governments all over the planet are going to face difficulties financing the repercussions. The disagreements will emerge because some people will agree with govt plans, while some people won't. As seen during the brief Truss leadership, you don't have to be a leftie vegan to disagree with govt policies and likewise, there'll be both Tory and Labour voters who don't agree with Hunt's plans.

[Cousin Jack]

Left v right politics in the UK is mainly about economics. Do you tax and cut to avoid disaster, or spend and inflate to achieve the same objective. The spend and inflate route arguably got the USA out of the shit pre WW2, bur doesn't seem to have worked well since. Perhaps it was WW2 that did the trick for them rather than economic policies?

[Ant]

I suppose they have to don't they, as they claim this wouldn't have happened under Labour and that Labour will this, Labour will that, which is a bit dangerous, as if Labour get in, nothing will change, then they'll be in for a grilling as they told us everything will be better. They're making some seriously big promises, which I doubt anyone with any sense truly believes they're capable of.

To be fair I don't think some of the current mess would have happened under Blairs government, IMHO they were a lot more central than anything we've seen in the last few years for sure. It seems like since Brexit we've been stuck with the most polarised politics in my lifetime.

Obviously the government in western democracy can only try and keep things somewhere near straight, they don't really control that much at all, but if the government are all over the place then the banks and all other contributory agencies run wild, as we've seen.

I don't give a monkeys what colour rosette you wear, I'll vote for the most centre of the road bunch that are around at the time.

I think it still would have done had Blair been now, unless you're suggesting that Blair would have stuck two fingers up at the energy companies and Ukraine?

[Count Steer]

I think there's broad agreement on this forum that the current energy and financial issues are global, and that governments all over the planet are going to face difficulties financing the repercussions. The disagreements will emerge because some people will agree with govt plans, while some people won't. As seen during the brief Truss leadership, you don't have to be a leftie vegan to disagree with govt policies and likewise, there'll be both Tory and Labour voters who don't agree with Hunt's plans.

If it was just the global factors I'd grin and bear it. It's the 'incompetence premium' that's been added that stings. £30bn for the Truss kamikaze 'not-a-budget', £6bn to bail out Bulb (+ ££s for the others) because the privatised energy market model is completely shonky, the ongoing PPE purchase and storage fiasco and Lord knows how many £bn (£470 per taxpayer pa according to some calculations) arising from the shambles they've made out of managing Brexit. (Yes, I know - we left, but they've made a pig's ear of leaving).

Now we have what has been perfectly described as a Gordon Brown budget delivered with George Osborne rhetoric.

You have to wonder just how serially incompetent a party has to be* before some people might think it's time to at least let someone else have a go while the others get a time-out to sort themselves out.

*At least Labour only managed to be serially incompetent (Ed 'the wrong' Miliband, Corbyn....) in opposition in recent times