Stealth Omicron

[irie]

The rise in the excess death rate isn't 'inexplicable' at all. In England for example, 3300 linked to the heatwave, diminished access to care, there's a possible link to cardiovascular disease and diabetes related deaths due to Covid infection, there are mentally related issues and lack of self-care following the lockdowns, there's the impact of sedentary lifestyle and dietary choices during the pandemic period etc etc etc.

No need to invoke 'killer jabs from evil pharma' until the other causes are understood and factored in.

No, no, no, to hell with the facts, a nice fat conspiracy theory loudly touted on social media by a tiny cabal of nut jobs is far more entertaining.

[wheelnut]

The rise in the excess death rate isn't 'inexplicable' at all. In England for example, 3300 linked to the heatwave, diminished access to care, there's a possible link to cardiovascular disease and diabetes related deaths due to Covid infection, there are mentally related issues and lack of self-care following the lockdowns, there's the impact of sedentary lifestyle and dietary choices during the pandemic period etc etc etc.

No need to invoke 'killer jabs from evil pharma' until the other causes are understood and factored in.

Thank you for explaining it in a way that I struggled to sum up the enthusiasm to do.

[Screwdriver]

The rise in the excess death rate isn't 'inexplicable' at all. In England for example, 3300 linked to the heatwave, diminished access to care, there's a possible link to cardiovascular disease and diabetes related deaths due to Covid infection, there are mentally related issues and lack of self-care following the lockdowns, there's the impact of sedentary lifestyle and dietary choices during the pandemic period etc etc etc.

No need to invoke 'killer jabs from evil pharma' until the other causes are understood and factored in.

No, no, no, to hell with the facts, a nice fat conspiracy theory loudly touted on social media by a tiny cabal of nut jobs is far more entertaining.

I can see the attraction in jumping to conclusions to imply Screwdriver is a nutjob, tinfoil hat time, conspiracy bollocks that some people like to regurgitate without pausing to even consider what I am saying.

Interesting that @Count Steer seems to be ahead of the game and knows exactly what the excess death rate is due to. Perhaps you should submit a paper to the BMJ. Currently as I understand it, the reason is unknown.

I'll just ignore @Irie, it has been following me around for years, throwing cheap insults. Nasty piece of work. I'll be putting it on ignore.

The meat of my post is not that excess deaths exist (they do ~10% higher than the 5 year average), nor even what the cause might be, COVID, isolation, lack of care or even the vaccine itself.

No, my concern is the secrecy, refusal to share data and the downright propaganda coming out of big pharma. That plus the "fact" that these injections are being made compulsory for some. The head of Pfizer recently refused to testify before the European Parliament. What little data they do share is heavily redacted. Why is that?

The profiteering is despicable and while that in itself might be passed off as mere capitalism, it leads me to question the motivation of big pharma to sell as much of this product as they can at gigantically inflated prices. At the same time lobbying (bribing) whoever they need to to make the big bucks. Thats fine if they are also happy to share the efficacy data and trial data but they're not. That is what bothers me.

[wheelnut]

I’m not really sure what information you think is missing. The efficacy data for the different vaccines was published in the vaccine trial phase. What do you want to see that you think is being deliberately withheld from you?

[Horse]

Isn't this all a bit circular:

There's information being withheld - but we don't know what it is because it's being withheld. But we know.

There's excess deaths due to the vaccine, but we don't know because the data hasn't been released. But we know.

And a drug company being a bit shady, hiding stuff and making profits. That already has the 'big pharma' name, so it's hardly a secret. I might not know much, but even I've read:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_Scien ... on%20Books.

[Mr. Dazzle]

It's all a bit Donald Rumsfeld.

[Horse]

It's all a bit Donald Rumsfeld.

There are things we're told, things we're not told and ...

[Count Steer]

Before anyone dashes out expecting the streets to be knee deep in 'excess dead' the 11% amounts to almost 26000. 54% of those were due to Covid, 3300 due to the heat wave. Of the remaining 10740 (4.5%) the BMJ article speculates on some of the things I mentioned above ....+ the delightfully termed 'mortality displacement', ending with the obligatory fund raiser of 'more research is needed'.

My take on it is that the data collection is a bit pants.

[Screwdriver]

I’m not really sure what information you think is missing. The efficacy data for the different vaccines was published in the vaccine trial phase. What do you want to see that you think is being deliberately withheld from you?

I am sure Pfizer have provided a ton of numbers relating to efficacy data and yes they did conduct a number of trials.

I don't believe the numbers because they consistently refuse to provide the actual data those numbers are made up from. Secondly, there are plenty of "stories" about the veracity and quality of the trials themselves, again, most of that data is withheld. I'm not making this up, I follow articles from the BMJ and similar outlets I believe I can trust.

https://ebm.bmj.com/content/27/4/199

Anyway, clearly my opinion is not welcome here so while I may have concerns regarding the safety of this vaccine for the reasons stated, it may be that I am more worried than most due to my own personal circumstances which include immune deficiency. I'm not sure I even want to go into it in any more detail, suffice to say a number of ailments I suffered from which were coincident with my Astrazenaca jabs are only now being revealed as potential "side effects" of the mRNA jab.

I thought this was a discussion, not just somewhere to meekly accept everything the mainstream media, government or (god forbid) big pharma tell you to believe. The truth will emerge eventually and like all such matters, by then it will be too late.

[wheelnut]

Do you feel the same level of mistrust against, say, the flu or measles vaccines, or is it just the covid19 vaccine?

I’m certainly not here to defend the drug companies, they will do their upmost to drive profits and shield themselves from lawsuits but I’m not seeing the huge conspiracy that you are.

What I am pretty certain of is that there’s rarely been such a widely administered vaccine than over the last two years. I think it’s fairly safe to say it’s been well tested.

We can’t know what will happen in the future, but not knowing is not knowing. Let’s let the evidence take us where it takes us.

At the moment the evidence is showing that the vaccine has been pretty effective.

[irie]

The rise in the excess death rate isn't 'inexplicable' at all. In England for example, 3300 linked to the heatwave, diminished access to care, there's a possible link to cardiovascular disease and diabetes related deaths due to Covid infection, there are mentally related issues and lack of self-care following the lockdowns, there's the impact of sedentary lifestyle and dietary choices during the pandemic period etc etc etc.

No need to invoke 'killer jabs from evil pharma' until the other causes are understood and factored in.

No, no, no, to hell with the facts, a nice fat conspiracy theory loudly touted on social media by a tiny cabal of nut jobs is far more entertaining.

I can see the attraction in jumping to conclusions to imply Screwdriver is a nutjob, tinfoil hat time, conspiracy bollocks that some people like to regurgitate without pausing to even consider what I am saying.

I did not say that you are loudly touting a nice fat conspiracy theory on social media as part of a cabal of nutjobs. The fact that you have jumped to that conclusion speaks for itself. But anyway, you won't be reading this. Fin.

[Horse]

What I am pretty certain of is that there’s rarely been such a widely administered vaccine than over the last two years. I think it’s fairly safe to say it’s been well tested.

Estimated 13 billion doses Worldwide, 160 million in the UK.

[DefTrap]

I am sure Pfizer have provided a ton of numbers relating to efficacy data and yes they did conduct a number of trials.

I don't believe the numbers because they consistently refuse to provide the actual data those numbers are made up from. Secondly, there are plenty of "stories" about the veracity and quality of the trials themselves, again, most of that data is withheld. I'm not making this up, I follow articles from the BMJ and similar outlets I believe I can trust.

https://ebm.bmj.com/content/27/4/199

.

It's all very well bleating about transparency and assuming pharmas have something to hide but you'd be whining like a milkfloat if they gave open season on your medical records, when they'd promised not to. Patient confidentiality is a legal requirement and organisations are really careful to keep it secure, not allow some smart Alec to inadvertently/purposely reveal a patient's identity. So yeah understandably reticent to share raw data. The report states that, over time, pharmas are making more data available and that the issue is not restricted to covid vaccinations. As for profiteering, there's a lot of clever people involved and an awful lot of failed trials - I'm sure you can work it out.

So, mountain out of molehill.

[DefTrap]

.

What I am pretty certain of is that there’s rarely been such a widely administered vaccine than over the last two years. I think it’s fairly safe to say it’s been well tested.

There's not a lot of scope for incompetence or malevolence in the clinical trials testing industry. We're actively encouraged to report anything suspicious, anything that doesn't follow good clinical practice, impact the data integrity or the safety of the patient. It would need to be a huge, well organised fraud, reliant on healthcare professionals from multiple organisations and regulatory bodies outside of the sponsor pharma suddenly giving up on their ethics.

It's just not plausible.

[irie]

.

What I am pretty certain of is that there’s rarely been such a widely administered vaccine than over the last two years. I think it’s fairly safe to say it’s been well tested.

There's not a lot of scope for incompetence or malevolence in the clinical trials testing industry. We're actively encouraged to report anything suspicious, anything that doesn't follow good clinical practice, impact the data integrity or the safety of the patient. It would need to be a huge, well organised fraud, reliant on healthcare professionals from multiple organisations and regulatory bodies outside of the sponsor pharma suddenly giving up on their ethics.

It's just not plausible.

But that won't stop the conspiracy theorists who for whatever reason need to bleat their implausible theories on megaphone social media. They're akin to cult followers.

[Cousin Jack]

What I am pretty certain of is that there’s rarely been such a widely administered vaccine than over the last two years. I think it’s fairly safe to say it’s been well tested.
]

Estimated 13 billion doses Worldwide, 160 million in the UK.

[conspiracy theory] Ah, yes, but they havent done any long term testing, over 25 or 30 years. [/conspiracy theory]

[Greenman]

I’m not really sure what information you think is missing. The efficacy data for the different vaccines was published in the vaccine trial phase. What do you want to see that you think is being deliberately withheld from you?

I am sure Pfizer have provided a ton of numbers relating to efficacy data and yes they did conduct a number of trials.

I don't believe the numbers because they consistently refuse to provide the actual data those numbers are made up from. Secondly, there are plenty of "stories" about the veracity and quality of the trials themselves, again, most of that data is withheld. I'm not making this up, I follow articles from the BMJ and similar outlets I believe I can trust.

https://ebm.bmj.com/content/27/4/199

Anyway, clearly my opinion is not welcome here so while I may have concerns regarding the safety of this vaccine for the reasons stated, it may be that I am more worried than most due to my own personal circumstances which include immune deficiency. I'm not sure I even want to go into it in any more detail, suffice to say a number of ailments I suffered from which were coincident with my Astrazenaca jabs are only now being revealed as potential "side effects" of the mRNA jab.

I thought this was a discussion, not just somewhere to meekly accept everything the mainstream media, government or (god forbid) big pharma tell you to believe. The truth will emerge eventually and like all such matters, by then it will be too late.

Spot on, and there lies the rub.

People just want to blindly follow the crowd and believe everything they are told, they are sheep and they have little independent thinking. This type of crowd will then, when things are not going well for THEMSELVES start moaning about all of the issues you have raised on this thread, which. tbh, are also issues i have been ranting on about on here and elsewhere for years and have been shot down as you have.

I have given up now. Some on here seem to have come around to the light side and have opened their eye's to the corruption happening around them, others seem totally oblivious to it, most likely as they keep themselves to themselves and have no interest in making other peoples (and therefore their own) lives better and just blindly believe everything they see and hear in the media!

The sad thing is once the sheep finally see what is happening around them it will be too late, as you allude to.

The Human race is fucked, just go and live as good as you can and enjoy as much of life that you have left as possible, it's impossible to educate pigs!

[DefTrap]

I read the bmj report - I didn't read into it what others obviously saw. More fool me.

I don't work for big pharma, I work in the supporting services for the regulatory authorities, my entire working life is built around making sure these clinical trials are conducted according to the law and that nothing underhand goes on. That's it. If you're looking for a conspiracy into how these trials are run, look elsewhere. The "you're all blind, you're all sheep, you're not capable of independent thought, you need to see the light, open your eyes" line is laughable. There are laws, local and international, in place for your protection to prevent any wrongdoing - and folk completely independent from big pharma are tasked with ensuring these are followed and multiple other parties conducting independent audits on data, processes and analysis. You've assumed someone is hiding something, there are good reasons not all of this data is readily available to the man in the street. If it was available, you'd use your inexpert eye to pick holes in the data, statistics and present your unqualified findings as fact. In the meantime you've decided it's definitely a conspiracy then.

Frankly it's insulting. If the arguments used weren't so easily deflated and the language used wasn't so childish and inflammatory then I'd probably be cross about it. But people get taken in, my own S-I-L is a sucker for the uncorroborated "what-if?" nonsense bandied about on social media. I'm fine with questions being asked - but not fine with folk persuading the gullible with nonsensical uncorroborated 'facts' which causes them to miss out on potentially life saving medication.

[Mr. Dazzle]

It's the foundation of all conspiracy theories and the like though isn't it?

Reality is big, complicated, vague and undirected. imagining there's a controlling hand behind it all is comforting, even if it's also unpleasant.

TBH Greeny, I'm still struggling with which way you actually lean on Corona On the one hand you tell us we're all sheep for following "Big Pharma" and doing as we're told, but on the other you also tell is the Government deliberately didn't tell people what to do so they'd be able to blame us all for spreading Corona. So which is it?

[DefTrap]

It's the foundation of all conspiracy theories and the like though isn't it?

Reality is big, complicated, vague and undirected. imagining there's a controlling hand behind it all is comforting, even if it's also unpleasant.

TBH Greeny, I'm still struggling with which way you actually lean on Corona On the one hand you tell us we're all sheep for following "Big Pharma" and doing as we're told, but on the other you also tell is the Government deliberately didn't tell people what to do so they'd be able to blame us all for spreading Corona. So which is it?

And in the meantime scoffing recreational drugs sold by unregulated street dealers or something grown in the back garden (presumably fine because that's organic and good for you). Yeah, I'm jumping to conclusions - annoying isn't it?