Any plumbers on here, just to pick your brain

[formula400]

Right, we moved into a new build house this time last year, after 3 or 4 weeks we lost hot water, I went upstairs and turned on the taps and topped up the boiler and we had hot water again. This happened again every 3 to 4 weeks, each time I spoke to the developer and also the company that installed it to come and sort it, they come would not do much and leave, then they found a tiny weep on underfloor heating manifold. They sorted that but the boiler was still losing pressure. And the immersion heater has never work,

The next thing they did was to remove the filling loop and fit a Pressure reducer valve and they left it open.

Since then it’s never happened again.

Fast forward to yesterday. I had an engineer from RM cylinders Joule come to service the immersion heater and get it working.

He mentioned a few points that got me slightly worried.

1.     Hot water vessel installed upside down (against manufactures recommendations)
2.     Discharge pipe does not conform to G3 building regulations (explained in the comments on his report)
3.     The filling loop that was fitted to prevent the loss of hot water is a ‘mask’ for a potential underlying problem and is bad practice, and should be removed. 
4.     The bench mark book (attached to cylinder) has not been filled out as required on installation- please can this be done retrospectively by the installers as it’s also a legal requirement, 

Here is a screen shot of the report.

Basically what I’d like to know is

Is the engineer correct
Who can I get round to say it’s been done properly or not???
The developers are slow and not helpful at all.

Sorry if it does not make sense I’ve typed it on my phone

[Scud]

Not a plumber but I’d be straight onto the developer advising them that the system is not compliant with legislation.
I’d be asking for a reply with an acceptable proposal for rectification within 7 days before passing to solicitor.

Put the ball in their court and leave it there.

[Scotsrich]

The filing loop definitely shouldn't be left open.

I'm no plumber but have had enough problems with central heating in both old and new houses to know that's chapter 1 in the plumbers handbook.

Honestly I'd threaten to bring an outside heating contractor in and send the the bill, followed by small claims court.

I'm in a new build myself but fortunately the builder was reasonable in snagging. Other houses on the estate by different builders are having a nightmare. Unfortunately you often don't find that out till it's too late.

[Ant]

The engineer's report sounds correct, shoddy installation, new builds.

Basically what the shoddy developer has done is constantly fill the system, as it's leaking. Think of it this way, get a bucket, pierce the bottom, fill it up.

Getting fed up with topping it up? Open the tap above the leaking bucket, but only ever so slightly.

[Mussels]

The next thing they did was to remove the filling loop and fit a Pressure reducer valve and they left it open.

Wow, that is terrible service. What damage has the leaking water done?

[formula400]

The next thing they did was to remove the filling loop and fit a Pressure reducer valve and they left it open.

Wow, that is terrible service. What damage has the leaking water done?

No visible damage what so ever.

[Cousin Jack]

Could be a tiny weep in a joint anywhere in the system. Little loss of water, just enough to drop the pressure over time.
Could be a tiny leak in the pressure vessel thingy (normally sits on top of the tank)

Daughter had a system that kept losing pressure, and it turned out to be the pressure vessel thing. Worth checking, because finding a tiny leak will be a PITA, reaching it to fix it may be worse.

[formula400]

Could be a tiny weep in a joint anywhere in the system. Little loss of water, just enough to drop the pressure over time.
Could be a tiny leak in the pressure vessel thingy (normally sits on top of the tank)

Daughter had a system that kept losing pressure, and it turned out to be the pressure vessel thing. Worth checking, because finding a tiny leak will be a PITA, reaching it to fix it may be worse.

I gathered it could be a nightmare finding it as like you said could be tiny and it drys before it can be seen.

But what option is there, I don’t want to be filling it up every 4 weeks, also when it’s time to sell that’s not great .

I am just trying to work out where I stand legally

[Mussels]

I presume they should have installed a water tight heating system and are kicking the can down the road until they can claim you have run out of time.
I'd be very worried about an unknown leak, it might be setting you up for a massive problem in a few years.

[Count Steer]

I thought they had some pretty trick ways of finding leaks now. (I may have dreamed this one but can't they 'listen' for them if they're buried?).

If it's hot water an IR camera might find a warm area bigger than it should be etc.

Isolate and pressurise sections?

One things for sure, all that water's going somewhere and needs finding and the system needs installing properly.

[Cousin Jack]

I think they isolate parts of the system, and pressure test them to localise it.

They should have pressure tested the whole system before handing it over. They obviously didnt.

[Taipan]

When I had a leak in my old system my (Plumber) mate came round and wrapped toilet paper round the pipes connecting the rads and ran up the system and turned it back off. He then walked round checking the bits of paper. He showed me one bit of paper that was dry but sort of crinkly, and that was the culprit. He said its nearly always at the rads they leak? Dunno if that will be your problem as you've got a brand new system, but it only takes a few minutes to try?

[neilf]

I am not a plumber but actually assess engineers on G3 building regs (amongst other things) and all I would add is the engineer is correct.
The installation is shoddy at best and has quite a few installation issues. Also flow rate at 7 ltrs/min is very low would expect pushing double that at a tap.

[cheb]

When I had a leak in my old system my (Plumber) mate came round and wrapped toilet paper round the pipes connecting the rads and ran up the system and turned it back off. He then walked round checking the bits of paper. He showed me one bit of paper that was dry but sort of crinkly, and that was the culprit. He said its nearly always at the rads they leak? Dunno if that will be your problem as you've got a brand new system, but it only takes a few minutes to try?

That is a cracking idea, and filed away for future use.

[Bowman]

It'll probably be a small leak that's causing it, but it'll be a bit of a bugger to find as it's not loosing a lot of water. Would you happen to know if it's copper or plastic under the boards? If its copper there are solutions that can be used to stop small weeps as a last resort. Ideally the leak should be rectified properly but tearing up boards and tracing pipework in a brand new property could leave you with a bit of a mess.

The filling loop needs to be refitted, continually adding fresh, oxygenated water to a system is very bad and causes corrosion. It won't have damaged anything yet but over time will cause an issue.