Triple Trouble - Consumer Rights

[Trinity765]

Seeing as it's shit weather for next 5 or 6 months maybe do the court route?

OTH February is the best time to do a deal on a bike.
I bought all my GSXR1000s in February. Got some cracking deals. Never paid above £8.5k

Same here. Everything, car tax, bike tax, insurance, MOTs all renew in February as that's when I purchased them. I took this Street for it's 12,000 mile service in February 2020. When I got to the dealer (not the current dealer) they said "You've got a new clutch", "But why?" I asked "There's nothing wrong with this one". They said "Don't worry, it's under warranty". I went on to say "But there was nothing wrong with it, are you suggesting that I ruined a clutch?". They told me not to be paranoid.

I left. It was cold and dark so I was in no hurry going home and the clutch slipped. I phoned them the next day and told them it has slipped and they said "It just needs to bed in". I've since found out that that is a load of cobblers - clutches don't bed in. You know the rest of the story.

What I've not mentioned is that if I go for the deal, the Speed Twin, I'd have to borrow the money until April which I don't want to do. It won't put me into hardship by any means but I've a plan to be completely debt free by the end of April with a new bathroom to boot and getting into more debt right now is unnecessary unless I really must have a new bike this minute (which, of course, I don't).

All online avenues point me towards the Citizens Advice Bureau so I'll give them a phone today.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

Clutches slip because they're incorrectly assembled, worn out or badly adjusted, there isn't much to go wrong with them.

[Trinity765]

Clutches slip because they're incorrectly assembled, worn out or badly adjusted, there isn't much to go wrong with them.

Someone suggested that the plates weren't soaked properly before installing them. Does that sound right?

[Trinity765]

I'm leaning towards getting if fixed locally and pursuing Triumph for grand or two. Then, in April, I can buy an additional bike of my choosing.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Someone suggested that the plates weren't soaked properly before installing them. Does that sound right?

Both times?

And what about the cams?

I'm leaning towards getting if fixed locally and pursuing Triumph for grand or two. Then, in April, I can buy an additional bike of my choosing.

My intuition is that you'd struggle with that. AFAIK, you have to give Triumph sufficient chance to fix the bike themselves before taking it into your own hands.

I know you've already given them chance to fix it, but you still haven't raised the possibility with them that you might take 'em to court for example. If you did try and pursue Triumph for the cost of an independent repair you'd have to do that through Court, at which time it'd come to light that you arguably didn't' give them sufficient opportunity to make it right themselves.

[weeksy]

I know you've already given them chance to fix it, but you still haven't raised the possibility with them that you might take 'em to court for example. If you did try and pursue Triumph for the cost of an independent repair you'd have to do that through Court, at which time it'd come to light that you arguably didn't' give them sufficient opportunity to make it right themselves.

NOt sure about that... surely that's only the case if she was asking them to pay for it ? e.g Warranty. Then they'd have to be given chances to fix it as per warranty/consumer rights. But in this case she's removing that issue by paying for it herself.

But of course that then potentially removes all future discussions as you imply.

The problem with all this is how do you prove they're at fault ? Will a judge say "yeah a clutch should last longer"... ? I don't know... How will he decide a market value... Triumph already fixed the bike out of warranty didn't they ? the warranty doesn't start again then, it's already passed. Sure we could argue there's an expected lifespan on that new part (clutch and cam) but again, that's not necessarily a warranty thing.

I'm just seeing this all as an idea that makes things complicated, expensive and hassle... Maybe that says more about my overall personality than the actual issue.

[Mr. Dazzle]

If it were me I would forget the warranty angle entirely. Clutches and cams should last longer than they have in this case, you'd argue this on the basis of fitness for purpose. Especially as these parts have been replaced once already and have now broken in even less time than before?

I'd be looking for a complete repair and then immediately sell the bike, or the financial equivalent (i.e. trade in as if there are no faults). I'd probably accept some percentage of that. In fact that's exactly what I did with my car.

[Horse]

I'd probably accept some percentage of that. In fact that's exactly what I did with my car.

IIRC the reduction is for 'betterment' ie there's a new item [clutch] in the bike.

If a clutch should last (for argument's sake) 100k miles but is replaced at 50k, then the betterment is 50% reduction. ie They foot half the cost.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

Clutches slip because they're incorrectly assembled, worn out or badly adjusted, there isn't much to go wrong with them.

Someone suggested that the plates weren't soaked properly before installing them. Does that sound right?

I assume it stopped slipping by itself after a little while, in which case yes, that's possible.

[Taipan]

Clutches slip because they're incorrectly assembled, worn out or badly adjusted, there isn't much to go wrong with them.

Someone suggested that the plates weren't soaked properly before installing them. Does that sound right?

The friction plates are designed to be run in oil, hence the term wet clutch. Assembling a clutch without either soaking the plates, or dipping them as you go, would certainly accelerate wear and mean a shorter clutch life.

[Yorick]

Clutches slip because they're incorrectly assembled, worn out or badly adjusted, there isn't much to go wrong with them.

Someone suggested that the plates weren't soaked properly before installing them. Does that sound right?

The friction plates are designed to be run in oil, hence the term wet clutch. Assembling a clutch without either soaking the plates, or dipping them as you go, would certainly accelerate wear and mean a shorter clutch life.

I rebuilt loads of engines when we were racing and never oiled any plates. Maybe I was lucky.

[Taipan]

Someone suggested that the plates weren't soaked properly before installing them. Does that sound right?

The friction plates are designed to be run in oil, hence the term wet clutch. Assembling a clutch without either soaking the plates, or dipping them as you go, would certainly accelerate wear and mean a shorter clutch life.

I rebuilt loads of engines when we were racing and never oiled any plates. Maybe I was lucky.

Its about longevity of clutch life, which in racing probably wouldn't be an issue as it hardly the kindest environment for a clutch!

I've known people to swear by soaking clutch plates for a minimum of over night/24 hours etc. But a lot of mechanics dip the plates during assembly and I have no doubt some in pressured workshop environments don't bother at all. But, whatever, a wet clutch shouldn't be dry assembled.

[Mr. Dazzle]

Clutches slip because they're incorrectly assembled, worn out or badly adjusted, there isn't much to go wrong with them.

Someone suggested that the plates weren't soaked properly before installing them. Does that sound right?

The friction plates are designed to be run in oil, hence the term wet clutch. Assembling a clutch without either soaking the plates, or dipping them as you go, would certainly accelerate wear and mean a shorter clutch life.

They are designed to be wet yes, but as soon as you fill the bike up with oil they get wet. I wouldn't imagine Triumph build them wet in the factory for example but that's just a guess.

Feels like a stretch.

Don't forget the primary reason for having a wet clutch at all is cooling. That cooling is provided by oil flowing into, around and then out of the clutch, so you can see it's designed to have good oil flow through it. So even if you built it dry, it won't stay that way for long.

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

I rebuilt loads of engines when we were racing and never oiled any plates. Maybe I was lucky.

I always did the same with LC and GSXR clutches, never had any problems, but they'd pick up oil from the steel plates, did the same with my Kawasaki clutch a couple of weeks ago and it was fine, interestingly, the old clutch plates had swollen with oil and were dragging, which is why I rebuilt the clutch, in my limited experience a slipping clutch is easier to fix than a dragging clutch.

[Yorick]

I rebuilt loads of engines when we were racing and never oiled any plates. Maybe I was lucky.

I always did the same with LC and GSXR clutches, never had any problems, but they'd pick up oil from the steel plates, did the same with my Kawasaki clutch a couple of weeks ago and it was fine, interestingly, the old clutch plates had swollen with oil and were dragging, which is why I rebuilt the clutch, in my limited experience a slipping clutch is easier to fix than a dragging clutch.

Remembering back, we used stronger springs to cope with the extra power and abuse.

[Taff]

Quite a few years ago I had an ongoing problem that the dealer wouldn't sort out, I just kept getting answers like "my mechanic has ridden it and says there's no problem".

After about 2 months of back and forth with them, the dealership was having a grand opening day for a new building so I turned up, tried to have a quiet chat with the owner which didn't work so followed him around talking to him very loudly saying stuff like.. all I want is a bike that works properly, it cost 9k and didn't work,. Etc.

After a little while of this he went to a salesman and told him to organise a refund

[Yorick]

About 15 years ago we bought a Freelander from Bingley.
It went through 3 clutches in 18 months.
Went to small claims court in Aylesbury and got refund of all garage costs.
The dealer didn't even bother to reply to court papers.
The judge almost laughed as he awarded us damages.

He wasn't very technically minded but he said something like, surely a clutch should last a few years?

[Le_Fromage_Grande]

Remembering back, we used stronger springs to cope with the extra power and abuse.

I used 3 TZ750 springs and 3 YPVS springs, which makes it sound like you've got TZ parts in your LC, but TZ750 clutch springs were the same part number as XJ650 clutch springs.

[Mr. Dazzle]

With regards to "how long should a clutch last?"

I think a good starting point would be Triumph's own service schedule. If they don't have "replace/service clutch" as part of the 12k service I think you'd be on pretty solid ground arguing that even Triumph think they should last that long. If you look on the Forums I bet you can find the offical Street Triple workshop manual - the one the dealers use, not the punter's one.

[Trinity765]

I have spoken with Citizens Advice.

They said that my contract is with the dealer that sold me the bike - not Triumph UK (I haven't actually contacted the dealer that sold me the bike but rather the dealer that I'm closest to and who have been servicing the bike for the last 2 years). They suggested that I email them quoting the Consumer Rights Act 2015 with says any goods received should be of satisfactory quality and ask for a first tier remedy - a repair or replacement. I have six years from the date of purchase to make a claim under that act.

I will send that email later.