CBT Booked

[dayglo jim]

Well done Tigs. Good time of year to start as you'll get a fair mix of weather conditions to help hone your skills

A couple of years ago i spoke to one of the traffic lads i know about Bikesafe as i was interested in going along and was told it would probably be a waste of my time as it was aimed at a lower level of riding than mine (based on my advanced car training and applying similar principles but on 2 wheels)

I was told it was aimed at post DAS and "mid life return to bikes" to try and get people used to correct lines and pre planning while riding thus smoothing things out instead of rushing into to corners on bikes with more power than they are used to either through stepping up having passed a test or buying a 180 bhp bike when they rode a CX500 25 years ago

I am still interested in going purely out of curiosity though

Been on a few, I like to have the odd 'appraisal' every now and again and I am always ready to incorporate/steal a phrase or scenario from someone else.

[Scootabout]

Just a comment on Bikesafe. I did it four or five years ago with the team based at The Warren, near Bromley. I didn't feel any pressure or expectation. It seemed like a genuine assessment, which I think is supposed to be the idea. The cop I was with said in the de-brief something along the lines of "A conservative ride, but nothing wrong with that. Safety is paramount. Do I expect to read about you in the local paper - no. Would I be happy for my kids to ride pillion with you - yes."

On reflection, it was about the most flattering way to say I was slow I can think of.

[Horse]

"A conservative ride, but nothing wrong with that. Safety is paramount. Do I expect to read about you in the local paper - no. Would I be happy for my kids to ride pillion with you - yes."

On reflection, it was about the most flattering way to say I was slow I can think of.

No, not slow. It's easy to be slow but still appalling

That means you got on with it, managed everything the ride put in front of you, no fuss, no drama. As long as you enjoyed it too, all good I guess you were trained well.

Although ... perhaps he didn't like his kids?

[Scootabout]

Although ... perhaps he didn't like his kids?

[The Spin Doctor]

No, not slow. It's easy to be slow but still appalling

It's not often I gee someone up for being too slow, but some years back I had someone book a course with me as he'd had "a bad time" with another school, who wanted him to be "in a big rush to get anywhere".

I think my thoughts on 'progress' are well-known so I booked him on, and off we went.

Oh boy. I could see why the other school had pushed him to ride faster. His attitude was "I'm not in a rush so f*** anyone else behind". Lots of brake light flashing when he was being tailgated, rude gestures when a couple of drivers hooted as they overtook us.

We had a bit of a chat about that. I don't think he was convinced.

[Horse]

Sadly, if it was in a thread titled 'things you need to know', its unlikely anyine would look

Lol, good point

Mind you, why not start some - Counter steering, braking, road positioning, overtaking etc. Threads can then be referenced to when Q's come up?

OK, it took a while

Unfortunately, we seem to have lost Tigs along the way.

[Bigyin]

OK, it took a while

Unfortunately, we seem to have lost Tigs along the way.

As most schools were only opened for a few weeks between October when the last post was due to lockdowns in November and since late December they might pop up again in a while

[Horse]

Good point!

[The Spin Doctor]

If there are any CBT schools left...

[Horse]

Seeing Tigs postingrecentlyreminded me of this thread.

I would of thought counter steering is not so important at cbt level or at slower speeds, and completely unnecessary at slow monoeuvers. More important at higher speeds when fighting the chiroscopic effect of front wheel.

It's counter-steering that gets the bike turning for the U-turn and Fig-8 that are both part of CBT... whether the rider realises it or not.

Just wait till you watch someone trying to steer 'car fashion' by turning the bars INTO the turn... and wobble along in a more-or-less straight line and into the chain link fence!

And reminded me of these pics. Brett T again.

Head turn & press left
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20221014_074850.jpg (34.1 KiB) Viewed 558 times

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Go left
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20221014_074917.jpg (39.05 KiB) Viewed 558 times

[Tigs]

Hi,

I'm back .. almost at the beginning - lost confidence - stopped riding - CBT ran out.. had to make a decision about whether to ride or to give up - decided to try again... so CBT - renew in hand.. and seem to have internalised some of this - - re-reading this thread has shown me how much I have improved ...

Trying to keep my motivation up to pass the A test this year!

[Horse]

re-reading this thread has shown me how much I have improved ...

It's valuable to do that. If a training session seems particularly challenging to surmount, mentally step back on think over what you have achieved.

[Bigyin]

Hi,

I'm back .. almost at the beginning - lost confidence - stopped riding - CBT ran out.. had to make a decision about whether to ride or to give up - decided to try again... so CBT - renew in hand.. and seem to have internalised some of this - - re-reading this thread has shown me how much I have improved ...

Trying to keep my motivation up to pass the A test this year!

Keep at it, you have done it once already so go back over what you have already improved on and apply that. This time the CBT is a known quantity and develop on from there

[The Spin Doctor]

To be frank, rather than try to ride around on a CBT - which in my considered opinion as a former CBT / DAS trainer is completely inadequate as preparation for riding on the road - I'd sign straight up for a DAS course and get your licence. You'll get a better, less stressed form of training, and you'll be a better rider for it... even if you don't rush straight out to buy a bigger machine.

[Horse]

My opinion as a former CBT / DAS trainer is completely inadequate as preparation for riding on the road

Yup. It's called 'basic' for good reason.

A training colleague described the 'pass' standard of CBT as "wobble competently", so keep learning

[Bigyin]

To be frank, rather than try to ride around on a CBT - which in my considered opinion as a former CBT / DAS trainer is completely inadequate as preparation for riding on the road - I'd sign straight up for a DAS course and get your licence. You'll get a better, less stressed form of training, and you'll be a better rider for it... even if you don't rush straight out to buy a bigger machine.

I would also agree but unfortunately his CBT has expired so he needs to get that bit out of the way first unless he can find a school that can tailor his training to his needs rather than follow the "normal" process which most ATB's follow

I laso think from some of the posts @Tigs might be A2 restricted by age rather than DAS so depends on his age whether he might be better to go straight for full license or spend a year or so on a CBT rather than 2 sets of tests in a short space of time ......I havent searched all their posts to check on age btw as a busy weekend

[Tigs]

No, I'm not restricted.. I'm ancient!!

My riding has really improved - as has my confidence. I've done more riding in the last week than I have in the last 2 years.

I hear you about DAS training - I really want to take it slower - most places round here seem to do 'intensive' 3 or 5 day courses. I'd rather do it in half sessions. The second CBT place I went to was far more friendly and relaxed than the first - so part of me thinks bite they bullet and test there - they did say come back at Easter tho.. I'm south London (/surrey) for any recommendations.

I'm working on my theory test at the moment! As I have to do that too...

[The Spin Doctor]

Yep, point taken about needing to renew CBT first but I dealt with too many riders who'd been given the advice to get a CBT "then you can pick up some experience" and had only achieved bad habits and a lack of confidence. I appreciate there are time and finance issues, but frankly, when riders do a CBT then go out and buy a YZF-R125, the cost of the course isn't the issue.

I also understand the problem with full day training courses and being knackered at the end of it - mind you, try being the trainer who's attempting to manage the course!

If you can find a school willing to offer half days, then go for it. Otherwise take the longest course you can afford - it'll proceed at a more relaxed pace than if the trainer is desperately trying to get someone up to test standard in less time than they really need. From what I heard, most schools are struggling to get test slots because the DVSA simply haven't managed to reverse the waiting lists that grew under COVID.

[Horse]

I also understand the problem with full day training courses and being knackered at the end of it - mind you, try being the trainer who's attempting to manage the course!

To emphasise this, from both sides:

We used to warn 'back to biking' trainees that they would be mentally and physically exhausted after just a 10-5 day. You're using muscles that wouldn't usually be worked, while trying to learn new skills and techniques. More than one said that they went home, sat in a comfy chair - then fell asleep!

I ran a couple of weekend advanced courses, based in Somerset in a borrowed house. First one went well. Second one didn't. The other instructor phoned me when he got home: "I've worked out what's wrong, I'm not tired - they didn't make us work". When instructing, you have to be several steps ahead, plenty of 'dynamic risk assessment' etc, along with delivering the planned syllabus and dealing with the unplanned.

[The Spin Doctor]

I also understand the problem with full day training courses and being knackered at the end of it - mind you, try being the trainer who's attempting to manage the course!

To emphasise this, from both sides:

We used to warn 'back to biking' trainees that they would be mentally and physically exhausted after just a 10-5 day. You're using muscles that wouldn't usually be worked, while trying to learn new skills and techniques. More than one said that they went home, sat in a comfy chair - then fell asleep!

Which is why I don't do 10-5, let alone the 8-5 'police style' course I enquired about... that's far too long. Pre-COVID I started at 10 with a briefing, was on the bike about 10:30 and finished around 3, with an hour's lunch. They learned as much in that five hour session as they would have done on a seven hour day because they were fresher and I could work more intensively. Now, post-COVID, I've switched the briefing online and record it, which means they have time to digest it and watch again before we head out. And the debrief, which used to be a 10 min chat then a written review is also online - I can use extensive on-bike footage, and they can also get to see the recording again. And whilst the onroad session is down to four hours that means they actually get an extra hour!

I ran a couple of weekend advanced courses, based in Somerset in a borrowed house. First one went well. Second one didn't. The other instructor phoned me when he got home: "I've worked out what's wrong, I'm not tired - they didn't make us work". When instructing, you have to be several steps ahead, plenty of 'dynamic risk assessment' etc, along with delivering the planned syllabus and dealing with the unplanned.

I managed to persuade the boss at Cinque Ports to start the basic courses half an hour later, at 9am rather than 8:30. Not only was it a shorter day, it gave people an extra 30 mins in bed, important when many were driving for 90 mins to reach us.

I usually started with some playground work - even on a DAS course - then a short classroom session - then out on the road about 10 or 10:15 to ride to the test town for a couple of hours training... lunch at 12:30 to 1:30, ninety minutes or so's training in the afternoon (usually going over what we'd covered in the morning), then a leisurely 'fun' ride back to the training school via some more interesting roads than the direct route up there. Finish up with a few slow control manoeuvres and e-stops and send everyone home by 4:30. But the afternoon in particular was flexible, depending on how tired people were getting and whether they were still receptive.